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-   -   # of Starts of Previous Triple Crown winners (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57467)

Dunbar 06-06-2015 02:56 PM

# of Starts of Previous Triple Crown winners
 
The 11 previous winners of the Triple Crown raced an average of 30 times each. Gallant Fox and Seattle Slew raced the fewest times, 17. Whirlaway raced an amazing 60 times:

Horse........ Starts
Sir Barton... 31
Gallant Fox.. 17
Omaha....... 22
War Admiral. 26
Whirlaway... 60
Count Fleet. 21
Assault...... 42
Citation..... 45
Secratariat. 21
Seattle Slew. 17
Affirmed..... 29

This is the main reason I can't get excited about an AP Triple Crown. He will almost certainly retire with somewhere between 8 and 11 starts.

Danzig 06-06-2015 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 1030209)
The 11 previous winners of the Triple Crown raced an average of 30 times each. Gallant Fox and Seattle Slew raced the fewest times, 17. Whirlaway raced an amazing 60 times:

Horse........ Starts
Sir Barton... 31
Gallant Fox.. 17
Omaha....... 22
War Admiral. 26
Whirlaway... 60
Count Fleet. 21
Assault...... 42
Citation..... 45
Secratariat. 21
Seattle Slew. 17
Affirmed..... 29

This is the main reason I can't get excited about an AP Triple Crown. He will almost certainly retire with somewhere between 8 and 11 starts.

Crazy...heck, personal ensign broke a leg and missed time, and made more starts than that.
we need to geld more horses!

cakes44 06-06-2015 03:24 PM

Whirlaway going 60 times before the Belmont...that us some good sh!t coach!

Danzig 06-06-2015 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44 (Post 1030220)
Whirlaway going 60 times before the Belmont...that us some good sh!t coach!

And i know citation ran in the trial a week prior to the derby...and he ran between the preakness and belmont!

Dunbar 06-06-2015 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44 (Post 1030220)
Whirlaway going 60 times before the Belmont...that us some good sh!t coach!

Whirlaway "only" raced 18 times before the Belmont, but after winning the Belmont he ran 9 more times as a 3-yr-old . He ran 22 times as a 4-yr-old, going 12-8-2.

ne to socal 06-06-2015 05:08 PM

Obviously mimicking the trend of fewer starts for class horses in the past few decades, nothing necessarily unique to TC.

richard burch 06-06-2015 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 1030250)
Whirlaway "only" raced 18 times before the Belmont, but after winning the Belmont he ran 9 more times as a 3-yr-old . He ran 22 times as a 4-yr-old, going 12-8-2.

i also believe whirlaway was one of the greatest contributors to the war bond effort in ww2.

Linny 06-08-2015 08:28 AM

Hard to compare the pre-Secretariat TC winners to those of the "modern" era. Remember, the phrase was only coined in the late 1930's during War Admiral's era. The 3 prior winners were effectively retroactive. While winning those three races was a big deal because they were important races, I'm not sure that at the time there was such a grail-like status attached to the feat. When it wasn't won for 25 years, appears to be when it attained that status. The more recent 37 year drought elevated it even more.
Also, the colts that won before Secretariat did so in the pre-syndication/stud deal era when it was assumed that the colt would retire to stud at the farm of the owner or the farm where the owner's mares resided like Belair/Claiborne etc. There was no big cash out coming from retirement and insurance companies weren't forcing retirement via insane premiums.
Many of the old style owners who were going to stand their colts recognized that testing their TC winners repeatedly against older runners was the best way to determine their viability as a stud prospect. In an era when horses run 10-15 times, every loss matters. Obviously, no one wants to send a horse over and lose, but in an era when horses raced into shape and raced often, losses didn't have so great an impact.
Today there is far more emphasis on protecting the value and making a deal while the value is at its peak. The numbers involved are so big that I don't blame anyone, but the sporting model has given way to the business model and I don't see it changing.

OldDog 06-08-2015 08:44 AM

Funny, I can't find any reason not to get excited about an AP Triple Crown.


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