Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   Stakes Archive (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   8/19 (DMR): Pacific Classic, DMR Oaks (G1's), DMR Handicap (G2) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62909)

Kasept 08-16-2017 06:19 AM

8/19 (DMR): Pacific Classic, DMR Oaks (G1's), DMR Handicap (G2)
 
1 ROYAL ALBERT HALL-GB (Corey Nakatani) 30-1
2 COLLECTED (Martin Garcia) 5/2
3 ACCELERATE (Victor Espinoza) 3-1
4 SORRY ERIK (Kent Desormeaux) 30-1
5 HARD ACES (Santiago Gonzalez) 20-1
6 DONWORTH (Mario Gutierrez) 15-1
7 CURLIN ROAD (Flavien Prat) 20-1
8 ARROGATE (Mike Smith) 1-1




10 pnt move up 08-16-2017 10:59 AM

Has there ever been a horse with his talent, who really had no excuse, run as poorly as he did and then rebound?

RolloTomasi 08-16-2017 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1097632)
Has there ever been a horse with his talent, who really had no excuse, run as poorly as he did and then rebound?

Not without at least a brief layoff in between. However, was there really no excuse?

It's an interesting quandary for the connections. It's an easy and perhaps plausible excuse that the horse detested the surface. This is supported by the relatively poor performance of Baffert runners in subsequent weeks. Until Sunday, and the efforts of Soul Streit and Irish Freedom, I thought it was a certainty that Arrogate would opt for the Woodward. That's actually still on the table if Baffert is simply trying to clear the table for Collected. Or he's simply figured out how to adjust his training to the surface and his confidence is restored.

At the same time, the BC Classic will be run at Del Mar this year, so if the connections don't want to deal with lingering surface questions all through the fall, they'll probably run here to get to the bottom of it all.

10 pnt move up 08-16-2017 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1097633)
Not without at least a brief layoff in between. However, was there really no excuse?

It's an interesting quandary for the connections. It's an easy and perhaps plausible excuse that the horse detested the surface. This is supported by the relatively poor performance of Baffert runners in subsequent weeks. Until Sunday, and the efforts of Soul Streit and Irish Freedom, I thought it was a certainty that Arrogate would opt for the Woodward. That's actually still on the table if Baffert is simply trying to clear the table for Collected. Or he's simply figured out how to adjust his training to the surface and his confidence is restored.

At the same time, the BC Classic will be run at Del Mar this year, so if the connections don't want to deal with lingering surface questions all through the fall, they'll probably run here to get to the bottom of it all.

I thought the same...I was told he was running here for sure about a week ago. I still find it hard to believe a truly great horse would have issues with surface, he never has anywhere else. My best guess is maybe he is getting studish?

This is a different track, maybe plays to the east coast better, maybe you need a race over it...have no clue but its def not SA or old Del Mar.

knickslions2 08-16-2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 1097633)
Not without at least a brief layoff in between. However, was there really no excuse?

It's an interesting quandary for the connections. It's an easy and perhaps plausible excuse that the horse detested the surface. This is supported by the relatively poor performance of Baffert runners in subsequent weeks. Until Sunday, and the efforts of Soul Streit and Irish Freedom, I thought it was a certainty that Arrogate would opt for the Woodward. That's actually still on the table if Baffert is simply trying to clear the table for Collected. Or he's simply figured out how to adjust his training to the surface and his confidence is restored.

At the same time, the BC Classic will be run at Del Mar this year, so if the connections don't want to deal with lingering surface questions all through the fall, they'll probably run here to get to the bottom of it all.

Its very interesting that both Arrogate and Collected are in this race. Collected has been training lights out and if can get the distance will be a handful to beat here.

10 pnt move up 08-16-2017 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knickslions2 (Post 1097645)
Its very interesting that both Arrogate and Collected are in this race. Collected has been training lights out and if can get the distance will be a handful to beat here.

I always felt like 10F was beyond his scope, and on this track its a real 10 furlongs this year. But he is training and talented, and you have that whole bet the longer priced Baffert horse thingy

Indian Charlie 08-16-2017 04:13 PM

Normally, when a horse of anywhere near Arrogates ability runs such an inexplicable race this close to the end of its career, it's just retired. Baffert didn't seem surprised or concerned even with the race. Instead of the usual talk about going over him with every diagnostic test available, he spoke like he had confidence that Arrogate would run back to form in a few weeks.

It was pretty odd.

10 pnt move up 08-16-2017 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 1097659)
Normally, when a horse of anywhere near Arrogates ability runs such an inexplicable race this close to the end of its career, it's just retired. Baffert didn't seem surprised or concerned even with the race. Instead of the usual talk about going over him with every diagnostic test available, he spoke like he had confidence that Arrogate would run back to form in a few weeks.

It was pretty odd.

I have pointed that out in other places, his comments before the race and after the race were at complete odds with other...nervous before, almost making excuses...to we will be fine in a few weeks.

Indian Charlie 08-16-2017 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1097661)
I have pointed that out in other places, his comments before the race and after the race were at complete odds with other...nervous before, almost making excuses...to we will be fine in a few weeks.

It is pretty odd!

RHT2004 08-16-2017 07:25 PM

I think he is a mortal lock. Why not retire him? He's running because he is ready.

10 pnt move up 08-16-2017 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1097695)
I think he is a moral lock. Why not retire him? He's running because he is ready.

I dont buy that, no matter how he runs his value is cemented based on when he was right not when he was wrong. I think its a great unknown to everyone but there is actually very little to lose.

Indian Charlie 08-16-2017 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHT2004 (Post 1097695)
I think he is a moral lock. Why not retire him? He's running because he is ready.

Yeah, he's a mortal lock too, though his morals are impeccable. In all seriousness, he should destroy that field.

RHT2004 08-16-2017 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 1097698)
Yeah, he's a mortal lock too, though his morals are impeccable. In all seriousness, he should destroy that field.

Mortal. He crushes them.

10 pnt move up 08-16-2017 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 1097698)
Yeah, he's a mortal lock too, though his morals are impeccable. In all seriousness, he should destroy that field.

I would point out Collected has never lost on a fast track i believe...and his TF figure is only a few points below Arrogate, he easily could be a very very good horse.

RHT2004 08-16-2017 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1097701)
I would point out Collected has never lost on a fast track i believe...and his TF figure is only a few points below Arrogate, he easily could be a very very good horse.

I dont think he wants 10f. Would have bet him going 9f at Saratoga.
Thats the only thing i think is a bit strange..... Collected has gotten very good, so his presence alone vs Arrogate makes me wonder.

Indian Charlie 08-17-2017 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1097701)
I would point out Collected has never lost on a fast track i believe...and his TF figure is only a few points below Arrogate, he easily could be a very very good horse.

I'm in no way denigrating Collected. Arrogate is simply in another level.

MaTH716 08-18-2017 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3kings (Post 1097795)
Arrogate scratched. Enter him to scare away horses from your stablemate. Racing is really crappy sometimes. You could see this for miles when collected was also entered.

Its a fake report. (I fell for it too :o)

3kings 08-18-2017 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 1097796)
Its a fake report. (I fell for it too :o)

I deleted it but still think he will scratch.

10 pnt move up 08-18-2017 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 1097796)
Its a fake report. (I fell for it too :o)

Who did he scare away?

RHT2004 08-18-2017 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 1097826)
Who did he scare away?

No one. Its silly.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.