Sun King
 

Anybody heard any news about Sun King? I read in January where Zito said he was pointing him towards the Met Mile, but I haven't seen any works on him.

Yes, the goal is to make him the first horse in racing history to go 0-for-25 lifetime in Grade 1 stake races.

A Ruthian like record which will surely stand the test of time!---and hey, he's already over half way there.

Even though he's named after a Beatles song, I now think of him everytime I hear Bon Jovi's Living on a Prayer.

Yes, the goal is to make him the first horse in racing history to go 0-for-25 lifetime in Grade 1 stake races.

LOL!

Thanks to you, I now have that song in my head. :p

Sure, he's not the second coming of Secretariat, but who is these days? He usually gives an honest effort, he's still running, and he's earned, I believe, just short of $2 million, but I guess you can always find something to criticize. I've seen him run a couple of times and I look forward to seeing him run again.

Not to mention a mere nose seperated him from Grade 1 victory against Invasor and he was only a head short in the Met Mile.

Which would have made him only the sixth horse in history to win the Met Mile and Whitney in the same calendar year. Can anyone (without cheating) name the first five to do so?

Albeit, the winner had a very difficult trip, and the runner-up a dream trip.

True, but you'll never see that notation on any stallion ad.

Yes, if he didn't put on a dramatic display of hanging in the final yards of both races last year, he'd have swept them.

Criminal Type and In Excess I'm sure of. I'll stab with Kelso, Forego, and Buckpasser for the other three

There were actually seven, I missed two. In Excess, Criminal Type and Kelso are correct. Four others have done it.

SK takes a beating here and elsewhere but what do owners race their stock for? To make money. This guy's banked nearly $2m. Anyone here campaigned a horse with that kind of bankroll?
invasor is the best horse in the US and SK was a nose back at Saratoga. SK didn't exactly get the dream run that day.

Tom Fool is another....

Compared to Invasor's trip....he absolutely did.

yup, two were before Tom Fool, one was around the time of Kelso.

Linny:
I recall Sun King getting a real nice trip that day but I could be wrong, as the race was a while ago. I thought he had every chance to get by Invasor and he simply didnt. After the race I thought he had won and was very mad at myself for betting "the wrong Zito horse" in Wanderin Boy, who ran awful.
When I learned that Invasor won, it was a consolation to me.

Norse Dancer's already done it.. 0-25 in G1s..:)

Actually, he didn't, really. SK was wider (significantly, if memory serves me correctly), moved at the same time that Invasor did and at no point in the race was more than 3 lengths behind the latter.

get the running line and chart the race -- (let me know if you need a copy, I'll send you one)

It's one thing for the figure makers (and part time race watchers) to put that opinion out there

quite another from someone who claims to watch alot of races

Should SK have won the race given the trip --- Absolutely, but he's a bigtime
hanger.

Was Invasor exposed ----Absolutely, anyone else but a hanger gets by him.

I agree, the trip didnt cost Sun King the race. He had his chance and couldnt get it done.

I was there live for the race and have seen it several times.

If you think Invasor was somehow exposed that day---that's just your own bad judgement at work.

He was moved very pre-maturely into the teeth of a hot pace, to engage Flower Alley...and they were hooked for nearly five furlongs, before Invasor stylishly put him away and left him for dead.

Meanwhile, Sun King stalked that battle from a outstanding tactical spot, and only had to mop up the survivor of the two. After Invasor left Flower Alley for dead, he had to withstand a fresh challenge from Sun King, who had a MUCH less stressful trip.

Invasor had every right to yield in the late stages, and Sun King had every right to press by.

When you watched this race, IMO, You put WAY to much emphasis on ground loss, and not nearly enough on the tactical circumstances of the race.

I don't think the trip cost him. Invasor would have won with another 1/16 or another mile. But...

From the Equibase chart. INVASOR stumbled leaving the gate (post 2), settled in good position entering the 1st turn, moved out a bit entering the backstretch , split rivals while gaining near the 5/8 pole, closed the gap while rallying just inside of Flower Alley midway on the turn, angled 4 wide for clear sailing entering the stretch and accelerated to the front approaching the furlong marker...

SUN KING raced well back for 6 furlongs while saving ground, launched a bid while on the inside midway on the turn, altered course to the outside while 6 wide leaving the 1/4 pole, rapidly gained from the outside to challenge at the 1/8 pole...

At Saratoga, six wide on the second turn is far worse than angling out at the top of the lane. Neither horse had "bad" trips but as usual the tactical speed and accelerating of Invasor won the day. I'm not trying to say that SK is as good as Invasor, he's not. Tactical speed horses can generally negotiate better trips. Whether the horses are Affirmed and Alydar, Slew and Exceller, Easy Goer and Sunday Silence or Invasor or SK, the one with speed always has an advantage.

Oh brother.

I give up.

I wasnt really impressed with this race. I thought every horse looked very tired coming down the stretch. It was a matter of "somebody had to win". Definetely not a stellar bunch of horses for a Grade 1 at the best racetrack in the world.

I may be the leader of the Sun King Fan Club, though Linny you sound like you could give me a run, but he had a very good trip in the Whitney and didn't angle wide until the very end of the turn. Invasor, aside from mild early trouble, was moved WAY too soon by Jara, in possible fear of the ridiculous Flower Alley, and was really best that day.

What Sun King does before the Met Mile this year really depends on when he is ready. Personally I think there's a Grade 1 in early April that could suit him perfectly. We'll see.

Sun King set the pace in the 2005 Breeders Cup Classic, and was coming off of a Graded Stakes win at 7 furlongs, and a narrow defeat in a fast paced Grade 1 one-turn mile.

Invasor, who is most effective using mid-pack-to-closing tactics, going a classic distance of ground, was coming out of a slow paced 10 furlong win, going into the Whitney.

The fast pace of that race was FAR more suited to Sun King. On top of that, Invasor was used very early to take it to Flower Alley.

There was nothing tricky at all about making trip judgements in this race. If Sun King couldn't beat Invasor that day...what more would he need in his favor?

What Sun King does before the Met Mile this year really depends on when he is ready. Personally I think there's a Grade 1 in early April that could suit him perfectly. We'll see.

Probably talking about a sprint at Keeneland?

The Carter I assume

Nope, a rubber match with Sir Greeley.

you mean getting to to chase 7 speed horses who all started to collapse, except the winner, while the winner was getting the worst ride in history, is not a candy set up?

If sun king was every going to beat a top class horse it would have been that set up.

Sun King never finished ahead of Giacomo in a race (0/3), thats all I need to know.

I forgot about the Carter. The race which made Bishop Court Hill a household name. LOL! Maybe Sun King can luck out (like Jazil did last year) and find a soft field for a grade 1.

You know, I believe I heard that stat before.

I like it!

Yeah, and Upset beat Man O War, hence the second meaning of upset(At least that's what robert Wuhl said)......Does that make him a better horse?? No..
It all depends on pace scenarios, which is the main reason i go with early speed..Sometimes, stretch runners cant "get up" in time..

Come on, Sun King lost to Giacomo in two TC races and one Breeders Cup race. Those races are complete fusterclucks, and complete throwouts when comparing two horses. Does anybody really believe Giacomo's a more talented racehorse than is Sun King? I know I don't.

The Kentucky Derby, Preakness, and Breeders Cup Classic are "complete throwouts" ??

Sun King's finest race was when he closed from out of the clouds and nailed Kazoo on the line. It was last spring at Keeneland I believe. It was awesome to watch.

I think the derby is a for sure throwout.

In this particular instance, absolutely. Do you really think these three races in particular are a useful way to compare these two horses? The 2005 Derby was an absolute anomaly, the Preakness was equally as wacky, and it's not like either Giacomo or Sun King were even within hailing distance of Invasor and Bernardini in the Breeders Cup Classic. Aside from the Derby, they were plain old afterthoughts in the other two races.

Fine.....let's thorwout Barbaro's Derby performance than.

What do we have left?

A maiden win on the Delaware Park turf course. A pair of stake wins on turf at Calder and Laurel. And a pair of stakes wins on dirt at GP....at the expense of Great Point and Sharp Humor....neither performance by a large margin of victory.

On Polytrack? No. There are no Grade 1 sprints at Keeneland.

Yeah, horses all over America, and probably Europe as well, are literally quaking in their stalls after Sir Greeley's scintilating performance the other day.