Time to stir the pot!!!!!
 

You know who could learn from the whole Barbaro situation? Dubya! In regards to Iraq.

First of all, R.I.P. Barbaro- you will be missed, you were a gamer!

But with that being said, Barbaro is like the Iraq situation. The great vets did everything they could possibly do to try and keep Barbaro alive. Every method, every treatment, when a new problem arose, they'd do whatever they could to to fix it. BUT WHEN SOMETHING IS JUST TOO BROKEN, YOU JUST CAN'T FIX IT!
Sounds a lot like Iraq to me!

Dubya, swallow your pride, cut your losses, and send our troops home. Let those ****ers be a bunch of warlords. Let them figure it out. Yeah we broke it, but we can't fix it. Enough people in that country won't let us fix it. It's time to leave. Otherwise this thing is Vietnam.

Couldn't this have been put in the political room, Pete? By the way, you're comparing apples to oranges.

My thoughts exactly.

I think this belongs in the " Ban Hooves " thread.

I compared New Coke to the situation in Iraq. I was ****ing hammered at the time.

Pmayjr,
You say things more directly than I do. I put up a post in the "Lesson Learned From Chickens" thread about "Letting Go".
Yup, you are correct...the time to let go of Iraq is now. Many people have said so, a majority "of the people".
If you want to copy and paste your words over in that one, feel free.
It's fine with me.
There is a time to let go.
DTS

the nick saban school for those who want to try.

when it gets too hard, just quit.

..or when you don't like living in North Cuba...move!!

Danzig,
I admit that I'm uninformed on some things, too lazy about others.
So I don't have to do the "google" thing...who is Nick Saban?
Was he a jockey that found that he was riding a horse that was fifty lengths behind Secretariat in th Belmont, he decided to hold his whip?
Just curious...no sense beating a dead horse...where did that one come from?

I agree DTS. We just didnt get the job done. Not because of the US being weak, because you cant find a war with rules. If we are to win this war, you basically need to drop a bomb on a few cities over there, destroy their will and then build them back up. Basically, make them fearful. Right now they have no fear. And of course, they do not value life like we do. It is time to bring them home and let things fall as the may.

he was the dolphins head coach--surely you have heard of him? he quit after 2 years and went back to college. pro's was too hard, and he knew he wouldn't win this coming year. it got hard, so he quit. seems to be the modern way. hell, just look at divorce rates! when the going gets tough--just quit.

no--we have to choose a side. sunni or shiite. you know--like in the revolution--brits or patriots. civil war--north or south.
pick a side. the sunnis and shiites are tearing the place apart. one has to 'win' the other has to 'lose'. they can't both be in power. we aren't talking dems and reps here.

Why cant both be in power and it isnt our business.

If I could get the money Bama offered i'd leave too. Most people would. Especially when you consider the chances were great he was going to get fired after one more year. Plus his family wasn't happy in Miami.

Done deal. He didn't quit on his family and that's what matters most.

Danzig,
Thanks for explaining. I'm not a football guy, so I didn't know.
Now, divorce...I know more than enough about that, but that's for a pm if you really want to know.
Sux any way ya shake or bake it.

they have been enemies for a thousand or so years. they just happen to live in the same country...and they're tearing it apart. and until one takes control, things will continue as they are.

see, unlike our two party system--they can't just vote and move on. we still all have pretty much the same ideology. we all believe in our system of checks and balances. we all have faith in our democratic republic. and keep in mind it's taken us many years to get where we are--a lot of growing pains along the way. it wasn't like we fought the brits and then snuggled up together for the next 210 years. we've packed a goodly portion of battles and civil war into our brief history...
a democracy is not easily won. our biggest mistake was thinking we could have instant success over there. remove saddam, boom democracy. isn't going to happen overnight.

had he won this past year, and had any good thoughts about the year to come, and his roster, he'd have stayed...money was the same. i understand the why's and all that...fact remains he still quit. but that's for another thread....

People quit jobs all of the time to take better ones. Why stay somewhere when you aren't happy?

as for it isn't our business--didn't see that originally....

we're over there, so i guess it is our business. it's funny, we get criticized for not going to darfur and places like that (we should DO Something is constantly said about places like that) but then when we DO something, we're wrong for doing so....

we have to get them stable enough to leave. altho i don't know who will decide just how stable is 'enough'.

read an interesting article in time about civil wars, where they happen, how they end. an eye opener for sure.

the biggest problem at this point imo isn't iraq. it's iran. and we created just what they avoided creating in gulf '91-- a power vacuum. iraq kept iran at bay, and vice versa. then dummy ignored everything we knew and went in anyway. iran's prez is our creation. bush gave birth to that rat bastard and now we have nukes to worry about. leave iraq, and guess who's moving in??

Why lie about it?

He was under contract with the Dolphins and for legal reasons couldn't tell the truth. He's not a fool.

it's funny...i don't know. i've been happy with all my jobs. and he hasn't at any. wonder if 'bama will make him happy?

Danzig,
You might find it interesting that at Najarif (sp) this past weekend, the Sunni and Shia were united...together firing against our military.
That whole situation is too confused.
We can't help with the rebuilding at this point.
We can offer air support to the Iraqi army, but then they shoot down our Black Hawks with rpg's.
Iraq won't start healing until we redeploy. Then, later, maybe...we can send in people to restore the water and electric.
So much of what's really going on doesn't appear in the US media.
It's a mess, and our continued presence isn't helping. Our guys are in a shooting gallery...and that makes no sense at all.

I'm not sure if he'll be happy. He might get fired regardless. :D

He didn't have to lie, Pillow... he could have said, "Right now, I'm not taking the Alabama job." Technically, that wouldn't have been a lie if he had said it in that kind of manner. Damn, here we go again on Saban. LOL :D

it's a mess. reminds me a bit of ireland--when they weren't fighting the brits, they were fighting each other. funny, they always seemed pretty happy.

i just feel like we haven't done enough. what we did was half-assed or something. then i feel we did a horrible thing by going into a sovereign country. saddam was a horrible person. but we've made a horrible mess. and i don't want to just leave it a horrible mess...
in other words....this whole situations is a freaking mess. but i don't see how we can just leave it.

i've always told my kids to do your best. that you should try your hardest. have we? i mean, yeah, it's HARD. but that's not a good enough reason to stop, is it? we broke it, we have to fix it. or is it irreparable?

oh, the humanity! he's sure jumped in with both feet. i wish him best of luck.

he's going to need it.

DTS.
You might find it interesting that the Iraqis called us in to kill over 100 Sunni insurgents in hiding. Americans are NOT THE MAIN TARGET ANYMORE.

And for those of you who dont think W has given up, he basically has. The Iraqi govermnment will not cooperate with getting rid of the Shiite insurgents and that is our out. The majority of our ground forces will be gone in 2-3 years. After 3 months of trying to control some of the violence in Baghdad with the "new" strategy, we will begin to draw down and the Arabs will have to solve the internal religious struggles. Iran v. Saudi Arabia.

I know!! I wish you haters would back up off the grille of our head coach!!

That reminds me....is thursday national signing day?

A correction with the latest evidence:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/29/wo...rtner=homepage

Hey Danzig
 

When is good time to give up then? When all else fails?

Pgardn,
That was an interesting article.
Thanks.

i don't know. i don't like the thought of giving up. of course if we reach the point of no return, then what else could we do? have we reached that point?

we can't do it all--a lot of it falls on the iraqis sholders--but they didn't ask for the mess we've put them in either. we are largely responsible-so i don't see how we can just walk away.

but we aren't solving the problems we've created. we need to solve them, or find someone who will. hopefully not the iranians!

I'm more concerned with the stability of Pakistan due to the attempted assassinations of President Musharraf. If he's assassinated then all hell could break lose over there.

Pgardn,
Here's a follow-up article that you might find to be of interest...
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36391