CONTESSA: "..wanted to throw up"
 

Not looking to reopen yesterday's volatile discussion of Dominguez' performance on Daytime Promise Thursday at Aqueduct, but I did just get off the phone with Gary Contessa...

The Q and A:

INSTRUCTIONS TO RAMON?
"She prefers to be outside horses anyway, so I told him to sit off and just make one run on the outside."


THOUGHTS DURING THE STRETCH RUN?
"I wanted to throw up.. It's the human side of the game. You do everything you can to prepare a horse and then you get one of the worst performances of the guy's career.. maybe THE worst."


WHAT DID HE SAY AFTER?
"He apologized over and over.. He said 'I can only tell you I'm sorry.'"


WHAT DID HE TELL YOU HE WAS THINKING?
"He said that when they came off the turn he was sure the rail horse was going to float wide and take the other one with him and that he would have the rail to boot home. He said the jock on the rail horse was using both hands to hold left on his horse as if the horse was trying to bear out so he thought the rail would open up."

Now that we have the riding instructions and the trainer comments, then I admit that Ramon made a bad decision.

However, what Ramon thought would happen about the hole opening up was what I said in the other thread that he thought would happen. He just made the wrong decision that didn't pay off this time. A lot of other times, it would have proven to be the right decision as a hole would have opened. If the hole would have opened, no one would have been complaining about his ride.

That ride was suspiciously bad. IMO, worse than what Ferrer did at Hawthorne last October.

how about we consider the idea that Ramon was trying to look like hot sh*t and his plan backfired...and then he had to go cover his sorry ride with an angry trainer...whose instructions he failed to follow.
not too different than a child who makes a bad decision and then tries to lie to mom and dad...

Since he disobeyed Contessa's instructions, then it was a bad ride. Again, if a hole would have opened up, it wouldn't have been considered a bad ride at all.

Go to the inside of two horses in a five horse field is ok?

It depends on what the trainer's instructions are, and how much horse the rider has.

But you just insinuated if he would've won the race going inside that it makes it ok, regardless of trainer instructions.

Yup.

It tells me Ramon does not do his homework before the race. Any jock who's worth a damn has handicapped the race, knows where he should be early on, AND IS AWARE OF THE FIELD SIZE. For him to try to go inside horses in a 5 horse field is laughable. The ride was either corrupt, or just plain stupid.

No, no one would have never known if it was or wasn't okay for Ramon to do what he did because the story wouldn't have blown up like it has. The only reason that we know it wasn't okay for him to do that in the first place is that a hole didn't open and he didn't win the race.

Sometimes, things happen in races and jockeys can't follow trainers instructions. However, I believe that they should try to follow them as closely as possible in any given race.

Going to the inside in a small field also depends on how much horse the rider has. If you don't have a whole lot of horse, but could possibly win the race by going inside and saving a little bit of ground, then go inside.

This is just more incorrect posting...which coincides with your posts yesterday ( where you told us we had to stop bashing jockeys....even though the posts weren't " jockey bashing " at all but a correct analysis of a racing situation ).

Even if a hole had opened it was still a " bad ride " as he took an unnecessary chance for absolutely no reason whatsoever. There were two paths, one was completely clear outside and the other would have taken an occurance to work out and offered the possibility of something extremely detrimental happening. It was an absolute no-brainer and a his decision was so bad that it offers the hint of a possibility that he had motives other than winning the race. Yet, you not only chose to defend him, but you also chastised other posters for questioning his judgement.

Being too result oriented in life, but especially in horse racing, is a very poor thing to do. " Good rides " and " bad rides " are very often NOT defined by how the race works out. Many riders give terrific rides that go completely unnoticed because they simply were on too slow a horse. This you will surely agree with. However, many riders give poor rides that also go unnoticed for both similar reasons or because their mount was good enough to overcome it. For you to think this ride in any way could have been considered anything other than a " bad ride " is a total misread of the situation.

You say we shouldn't comment on jockeys if we haven't ridden a horse. I say, based on your opinions, your's aren't qualified simply because you have.

Yeah and it's obvious from the replay Ramon didn't have enough horse. :rolleyes:

I already admitted based on the trainer's commentary that Ramon made the wrong decision. However, you acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field. I just gave you examples of when it was okay to inform you on the matter.

...

Are you ok?

Yeah, why? It was just two simple questions that you're avoiding answering.

This even more ridiculous. NOBODY " acted like it was always the wrong decision to take a horse to the inside in a small field ". We were commenting on a SPECIFIC SITUATION, in fact only you were making gross generalizations, and I think ( unlike you apparently ) we are well aware that all situations offer different possibilities.

You were wrong yesterday and are insisting on making it worse today. At least Ramon admitted his stupidity....without trying to blame others.

More importantly, I think you're missing one huge thing. The only basis for defending him that would hold ANY weight is the notion that were he trying to save ground if he didn't think he had a lot of horse on the turn, one could perhaps find a TINY space in their heart to cut him some slack.

You keep talking about saving ground, but they were on the straight. Simple geometry says that there is no ground to be "saved" on a straight stretch of racetrack.

Though I am not an expert horse rider, so that may impact my math and reasoning skills...

Actually, Pillow Pants said "going to the inside of 2 horses in a five horse field is okay?" I gave him examples where it was okay to do so.

I admitted that I was wrong, but I didn't know I was wrong yesterday because I didn't know the trainer's instructions, hadn't seen the trainer's and rider's commentary, and didn't know this particular horse's tendencies.

And another thing is that I wasn't making gross generalizations yesterday too. If you want to play that game, you were making gross generalizations when you didn't even know the trainer's instructions or the horse's tendencies. I even admitted in the thread yesterday in response to 2MINSTOPOST that he may be right and that my outlook may be wrong.

Also, I was saying that people needed to stop bashing jockeys as a whole, and those I am talking about know who they are. I was also referring to other threads over the past few days when I was talking about that. Also, I didn't try to chatise anyone, and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.

And I'm not blaming others. Where I am I blaming others? Show me.

I wasn't talking about Ramon's ride when I posted that. I was talking about, in general, when a jockey needs to go to the inside in a race.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, a 3 to 5 shot should be ridden differently than your average horse. Two words...AVOID TROUBLE.

simply becuase theyre 3-5? like youve never saw a 3-5 shot that had no business being those odds

This nonsense about not being able to evaluate the ride without knowing the trainers's instructions really needs to stop. Anyone that knows the first thing about watching a race knew that what Ramon did yesterday was inexcusable. Are you trying to suggest that the trainer could have told him to find the path of MOST resistance?

It was a bad ride, that you defended yesterday, and were wrong. You were " blaming others " in that you were suggesting those of us that called it a bad ride were in any way out of line. We were not only NOT out of line....we were 100% correct.

There are some 3 to 5s that are better than others, no doubt. Still, you are most likely sitting on the best horse by a lot at 3 to 5, and don't need to work out inventive trips to win. If the horse is a bad 3 to 5, it probably won't win with a perfect trip.

Of course you're right, and anyone that has talked extensively to riders, which I have, knows that one of the toughest things about riding big favorites ( which obviously they would like to always do ) is making sure the horse does not lose due to jockey error. A good rider knows when he may need to help his mount and when he can only hurt it.

To the person who suggests that all 3:5s aren't the same....obviously this is true but in general, the better a mount the less chances a rider should, and usually does, take.

I did not call those of you who called it a bad ride way out of line. I called those who have been bashing jockeys way out of line.

Obviously, you either like starting stuff or need to learn how to read. Go back and read what I posted to 2MINSTOPOST in that thread yesterday.

It was brutal. Montolvo did it earlier in the week at Tampa in a five horse field. Sat off a three horse speed dual then tried to come up the rail, got shut off, pinned in, and finished third. The ride in NY was horrific as well.

What do you say to a trainer in that situation? Sorry doesnt cut it.

If Ted Ginn Jr. had been riding, the horse would have won going away.

thats the most inept ride ive seen in 5 years..what a tool ... gary should tell him to take a hike..just awefull the horse is looking around as if to say..wtf?

that she was...

Oh, let's not get the priorities mixed up, he talks to tons of jockeys...lol:p :D

Sorry, after your post to me about Matz the other day, I couldn't help myself.

This is the second time you have claimed a poster who was correctly pointing out the inaccuracies in your posts was doing it for some personal reason.

Way to stick to the issue!

UMM he actually DOES talk to tons of jockeys...
your post the other day was about a friend who asked a question of matz...not quite the same thing.

And I don't know anyone or talk to anyone in the business...lol.:D

I don't know or care who you know...I'm quite sure that you have the same opinion of my contacts...
however i can assure you that BTW has more, and that they are legitimate and exist at all levels of the game.

Are you honestly this clueless? Do you think because I don't litter my posts with names that I don't know a LOT of people in the industry?

This is completely irrelevent. You made an idiotic remark about my talking to jockeys, as if to suggest I was lying, which was completely out of line. Nobody referenced, or cares, as to whether or not you know anybody in this game.