Trainers and drugs
 

With Pletchers appeal recently ruled against,he will most likely be joining Mr.Lake,Asmussen,and Norman on Drug vacation.Imagine that,the top thoroughbred trainers in the country,except Frankel,all on suspension for drugs.Great message they are sending out.I agree with the article I read recently that stated that tracks should refund all money to people who wagered on a race with drug positives in it.Maybe then the sport would finally clean up its act,and the breed would regain soundness and stamina in the animals.What do you all think?

In addition to that, those trainers should have to pay percentages of winning money lost by owners, trainers, grooms, jockeys and exercise riders of the horses that were beat by guys that cheated.

how about a class action suit...I want my money refunded.

common people ..its just a little head cold...celabrex.. revives tired blood..:D

And another thing , those people who cashed on said juiced up horses should have to give back their winnings too , because maybe if the trainers hadnt cheated then they wouldnt have cashed tickets. Is only fair.

Lets not go too far Honu, this game is hard enough, either way I already give back all my money :)

LOL!!!!!!!!!

i think its very hard to make money and be successful if you run a clean operation. my feelings are that there are more drugged horses then non drugged horses. something needs to be done. the guys that are playin fair are gettin killed cuz everyone is cheating. if nothing gets done everyone will eventually be drugged. it will be the only way to make money

Now that wouldn't be fair. Those people didn't do anything wrong. Unless you're talking about tickets cashed by the offending trainers or their associates, people with knowledge of the juicing.

This is a tough topic i am surprised by pletcher getting in trouble as i didnt think he would do something like that. But oh well, has Barclay Tagg ever gotten in trouble? i really like him and if i ever got a horse that i thought was pretty good that is the guy that i would want training it. you guys are right though if everyone is doing it and some guys are playing by the rules not very fair.

The only guys who play fair are the guys who are too broke or cheap to hire aggressive vets.

They all do it!!
 

Its just a matter of how much money they have to spend on the stuff that they know won't show up, in the test. Its basically the "clear" but for horses insted of Barry Bonds.

are you being sarcastic here? the guy learned under one of the biggest drug-using cheaters in the history of the sport.
he had to pick up some good pointers.

Then why are so many of D Waynes horses great sires, and why have some of his filles and mares been good producers?
I have noticed certain unaccused "great trainers" can't get a sire to save their lives. Anyone besides me ever conclude thats because perhaps their horses performances were artificial?

I think the solution to the drug problem is simple. If a trainer gets caught "juicing" a horse then it is a lifetime suspension. I would say that all drugs need to be illegal. I know you can make an arguement for a couple of them, but to me it is a ZERO drug policy. If you do want to give your horse something then you better make sure to have the horse tested (with your own money) to make sure the drug is out of the horse's system.

I'll go even further. I think if a horse gets a positive for even a cough drop, the trainer and horse is sentenced to death by firing squad. ZERO TOLERANCE.
Now if their assistant takes over their stable and they have a horse come up with a positive the horse and assistant, along with the original trainers immediate family, are sentenced to death by being thrown out of a plane over the everglades. That way if one of them survives a critter will be sure to finish them off.

Thats a little too lenient for me.
I propose a real scare. When Oleg Penkovksy, the GRU colonel of the USSR who was caught spying for the US and saved us in the Cuban Missile Crisis, was convicted of spying, they bound him to a board with piano wire and cremated him alive. Not burned, cremated him ALIVE!!!
I'd say that would cut down on violations.

Now I didnt know that little story. Yeah, that is pretty bad right there.

Hey we could label these cheaters terrorists and send them overseas for some good old fashioned torture before their death sentence. They could enjoy various forms of torture like a caning or how about a scoldering coat hanger shoved up their pisshole?

It's time for the $1 exacta boxers to get revenge!!!!

Why do you think it is a little harsh? I know stuff happens as well. But, someone has to take the responsibility. To me, the trainer is the one that needs to be held accountable. You could also have something in place for big operations where the assistant trainer is running the barn while the main trainer is at the main stable. For example, Pletcher could have a string in Cali but he would be in New York. The trainer over seeing the operation in Cali would be responsible for any positive tests. The training outfit has to say that they horses are running under the assistants name on behalf of Pletcher. There is always policy that can be well written to address all situations.

Dude, you are cracking me up. Now sure what to think of someone who can come up with a "scoldering coat hanger shoved up their pisshole."

yeah, those accidental postives of things like lidocaine from a foot salve for cracked feet definitely demand high profile punishment.
Calling for a life time ban on any trainer with a postive test without differentiating between accidental overages of no performance enhancing drugs, and flat out juicing is one of the dumbest things I ever heard.

Well see, if a trainer does the testing on his own then he/she will know that the horse is clean before the horse races. The trainer will know what is in the horse so therefore the trainer can make sure that everything is out of the horses system.

eurobounce in 2008!!!

There is a huge difference between an overage of a legal drug that was withdrawn in time according to the vet's instructions and lingered, and a guy stepping into a stall and "mainlining" a horse with a hopper on race day.
EPO also doesnt "accidentally" make its way into a horses system. Its not like EPO is like Clen or BUte which can be given quite legally and sometimes lingers.
People who talk about lifetime bans on stuff like this usually have no idea what they are talking about.

Just realize how expensive that is and that the cost would be directly billed and passed on to the owners in the day rate. When you get your first bills for this on your two horses, lemme know what you think about your own idea ok?

The horses that only a percentage in do not run on drugs. The trainer doesnt even give the horse any type of pain medication--maybe that is why they arent winning. The ownership group got together (and the trainer is also in the group) and we decided that no drugs should be administered. Now, if the trainer needs to give the horse something then it is written that the horse must wait 32 days after the medicine was administered before the horse can be entered into a race. One of our horses got loose and slif across the pavement at the track. She cut herself up pretty good. The vet gave her some meds for the pain and to fight off any type of infection. The horse wasnt entered in a race until 48 days passed since the last dose was given. I feel that mistakes can be prevented by taking the necessary pre-cautions. Pre-race testing is a precaution that can be used.

I do not get bills. It is a one time flat rate. And again, if you arent giving your horse anything then you wont need to test. If you do give your horse something, just make sure you give it enough time to get out of the system. The point is to make the game fair and legal. What is your suggestions. I hear you making fun of mine but I haven't heard you come up with an idea.

Thats because I like to think that there is no "one idea" that can be standardized in a theoretical argument like this one.
The best way to go would be to regulate the vets ok? The notion that these folks have on here most of the time where the trainer is injecting horses is quite funny. Most of these guys don't have any idea what does what. You honestly think they take a syringe themselves and fill it full of something and inject it? I'm trying to picture some trainers I know reading a chemistry book and then trying to get the stuff and fill a syringe and know when and where and how to give the stuff and its pretty funny!!!!! Some of these guys still don't know how to work email!!!!!!!!
The vets do the work, not the trainers.

This made me laugh. I am trying to picture someone like Cole Norman with a bunson burner, syringe and a book. That is funny right there.

I can see where regulating the vet can be a viable solution. But who is the person that calls the vet in? I am sure the trainer would like to know what the vet is doing. I am sure the vet gives the trainer a bill. So the trainer has to have some idea as to what is going on here. You cant just turn a blind eye to what the vet is doing and put all the blame on the vet.

I think in Europe horses do not run on lasix or bute. I could be wrong. If someone knows for sure, please let me know.

I was actually trying to picture someone else, but had the same sort of visual. Like the guy sitting there trying to read this chemistry book and reading out loud and completely mispronouncing the names of the stuff hes reading about. Then I'm trying to picture him online at the store trying to buy syringes and trying to order the stuff hes mispronouncing.
Then I'm picturing him trying to fill a syringe with the correct dosage and screwing it up horribly and injecting the horse and having it fall dead on the ground like the scene in Animal House, and then him running away like the guys in Animal House after the horse dropped dead. Thats pretty much what it would look like.

Freaking awesome with the Animal House analogy.

I also think that in some states the horse has to actually bleed in either a workout or race before lasix can be administered. I think this is the case but I could be wrong.

Well I'm picturing his asst's there next to him standing guard like Bluto and Dday and going "HOLY ****" just like they did when the horse hits the ground with a thump. Then them running as fast as they can through the stable area.