A question on Easy Goer...
 

Does anybody know what Beyer Figure he got in his Gotham win?
How did it match up with Discreet Cat.

176...........

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha Ha...but seriously...what was it?

Beyer figures weren't public until the Racing Times which was around 1990 and that was 1989. I will see if Beyer knows off hand. I think they have said Sunday Silence and Easy Goer ran numbers in the low 120s when they were good.

Discreet Cat has a LONG way to go to even be considered in their league.

it been so long since we've had a consensus great horse, that we forget.
thats why we all go gaga whenever a horse even comes close to greatness. we'd like to have one to watch and appreciate, but this is about as close as it gets and like you say its really not all that close.

You're buggin'.. They were faster than the fastest horse in the history of ever?

Easy got a 176. Cat got a 115. It should be simple. At a mile, each length should be about 1 1/2 Beyer points. Using this formula, Discreet Cat would have been at the 1/16 pole when Easy crossed the finish line. The track conditions have to be considered, though. Who knows? DC might have beaten the Phipps' color bearer that day.

The bottom line is that he did not run as fast as EG. Holy Bull would have smoked both of them at a mile in November..

yeah, what he said.

i think.

Heres a fact that might put that race into perspective(DC's race).
In the history of Aqueduct, in all the dirt miles ever run, the three fastest miles are:
1)Tie between Discreet Cat and Easy Goer
3) Tie between Dispersal and Quiet American
5) Tie between Badge of Silver and Congaree and Silver Train.

Badge's place in 1:33 flat was the co 5th fastest mile ever run at Aqueduct.
Again, not detracting from DC's obvious great talent, but does that fact not indicate that perhaps the track was "just a little juiced up" when Badge is running as fast as Congaree ever did?

well, then obviously it's just apparent that BOS was a better horse than congaree....


oh geez...someone give me a hand here, i think my tongue is stuck way back in my cheek and i can't get it out!

Actually i erred somewhat danzig. Congaree did indeed run his mile in 1:33 flat in his 2nd monster winning of the race.

[quote=blackthroatedwind]Beyer figures weren't public until the Racing Times which was around 1990 and that was 1989. I will see if Beyer knows off hand. I think they have said Sunday Silence and Easy Goer ran numbers in the low 120s when they were good.

QUOTE]
When were they not good?
Combined record...34-23-10-1...never out of the money. And you must consider that four of those second place finishes were against each other

Memories
 

Was There At Gulfstream. Breeders Cup, Sunday Silence And Easy Goer. One Of Durkins Best Calls Ever. Super Memories Down The Stretch Neck And Neck

i've seen it somewhere that sunday silence received a 124 for his 89 classic. i would suppose that easy goer's was 123 or 124 for that race. i haven't seen figures for any other of their races. i've always wondered what the '90 hollywood gold cup figure was where criminal type beat sunday by a long nose and the final time was 1:59 something.

Easy Goer / Sunday Silence Beyer Figs
 

Long-time lurker. Figured I'd sign up since I actually have this information saved and it's pretty cool to look at for historical perspective. Beyer Figs were available via Bloodstock Research in those days. I always wished they would make some of the older figures available in some kind of publication - I think a lot of racing fans would love to see this stuff.

EASY GOER (check out his #'s at 2)
Suburban - 119
Met Mile - 114
Gold Stage - 111

BC Classic - 124
JC Gold Cup - 120
Woodward - 115
Travers - 121
Whitney - 119
Belmont - 122
Preakness - 113
Derby - 97
Wood - 110 (This figure was very controversial - the raw # was much higher)
Gotham - 118
Swale - 110

BC Juv - 100
Champagne - 116
Cowdin - 110
Allowance - 113
MSW - 102
MSW - 86

Sunday Silence

Hol Gold Cup - 118
Californian - 110

BC Classic - 124
Super Derby - 106
Swaps - 107
Belmont - 113
Preakness - 113
Derby - 101
SA Derby - 116
San Felipe - 107
Allow - 98

Allow - 93
MSW - 102
MSW - 78

While we're at it...

Lady's Secret (in 86)
Beldame - 109
Ruffian - 119
Maskette - 116
Woodward - 120 (Thus giving Precisionist a 128)
Whitney - 118

Criminal Type
Hol Gold Cup - 118
Met Mile - 117
Pim Special - 117
Oaklawn - 108
San Bernadino - 115
SA Handicap - 115
San Antonio - 113
San Pasqual - 111

Opening Verse
Hol Gold Cup - 113
Pim Special - 112
Oaklawn Handicap - 121
Razorback - 115
Allowance - 124

If Easy Goer ran those numbers today sheet players would be telling us he was as good as dead going into his 3YO season.

Thanks for posting those numbers. Seeing what really good horses were able to do puts these flash in the pan and unproven horses in perspective. The really good horses showed it over time and did it again and again. Easy Goer's 3YO season puts our recent darlings to shame.

Wow, Discreet Cat won the Jerome and Cigar Mile. Easy Goer won the Swale, Gotham, Wood, Belmont, Whitney, Travers, Woodward and JCGC, with seconds in the Derby, Preakness and BC Classic. OUCH!

FYI - Quiet American broke 120 when he won his AQU mile race in 1990. 124 I think. A couple more from 1990:

Unbridled
BC Classic - 116
Super Derby - 106
Allowance - 115
Belmont - 96
Preakness - 115
Derby 115

Bayakoa
BC Distaff - 113
Spinster - 113
Chula Vista - 107
San Diego - 105
Milady - 102
Hawthorne - 100
Apple Blossom - 114
Santa Margarita - 110
BC Distaff 89 - 116
Ruffian - 115

Go For Wand
Beldame - 117
Maskette - 105
Alabama - 111
Test - 114
Mother Goose - 104

Fastest BC Classics since 1988:
Ghostzapper - 124
Sunday Silence/Easy Goer - 124
Alysheba - 122
Skip Away - 120
Black Tie Affair - 120

Fastest Route Figs 1992 - 2001:
Formal Gold (Whitney) - 126
Will's Way (Whitney) - 126
Gentleman (Pim Special) - 126
Bertrando (Woodward) - 125
Formal Gold (Woodward) - 125
Skip Away (Pim Special) - 125
Formal Gold (Iselin) - 124

Hey Bravado
 

Nice posts. Puts things in perspctive. Everyone should look back at stuff like this before throwing around the "great" adjective.

Good posts Bravado

thanks for the info bravado. i guess the late 80's early 90's were the good ole days...........

Its going to be very hard to see horses running that fast ever again.
The reason for it is the lack of field size and rivalry where horses push each other to greater heights.
People seem to forget that horses can't read the DRF, but people can.
These days horses at the highets echelon tend to play keep away all year long and race against 4-6 other horses in the majority of their races.
Paces are slower and final time is a function of pace.
Also there is only so much you can do with a horse in the morning to get him to advance in fitness.
The matchups between the greats in the past pushed these horses on race days to hit new heights in conditioning and fitness.
Its really no different than tennis. If you play tennis agaisnt someone with no talent all the time, no matter how technically good you are, your game won't be raised. You take on someone of equal or greater ability, and your game will be raised.
How are today's horses supposed to advance to new heights and optimum fitness levels when they are running in slow paced small fields?
WOuld Sunday Silence and Easy Goer have been as fast without the battles pushing each horse?
Would Affirmed and Alydar been as fast without one pushing the other all year to greater heights?
Perhaps, but unlikely.
To get that to that really high, ultimate level of fitness you need to get their from racing and being pushed to new heights.
The way that the BC has shaped racing, well those days seem to be in the past. Thats going to make it awfully hard to see the greatness of years gone by in my opinion. Remember, as important as time and figures are, horses don't run against the clock, they run against other horses and when you are 5 in front as you roll of the turn whats gonna push the horse to run faster or harder.

We'll see another truly great one again, I'm sure. It hasn't been that long since Cigar. Then, going backwards, J Henry, Affirmed/Alydar, Spectacular Bid, Slew, Forego.

Probably going to be a gelding. Best I ever saw live was Forego. I remember driving to NY to see the Marlboro where he carried 137 and ran down Honest Pleasure by a head. I bet Honest Pleasure.

And Sunday Silence won the San Felipe, Santa Anita Derby, Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Super Derby, BC Classic, and Californian, with 2nds in the Belmont, Swaps, and Hollywood Gold Cup. Its a damned shame they shipped him to Japan. I loved that horse. What a year that was from the '88 BC-'89 BC...

Formal Gold was a monster.. check out those beyers, 3 of the top beyers in that group.

yeah, his blood wasn't blue enough and he had sickled hocks. it's funny, i doubt there's any bluer blood in japan than his.

cesario has sickled hocks too and that girl could fly.

Plus he ran a 122 in the Mass Cap. Formal Gold ran what was at the time the fastest debut Beyer Fig ever (don't recall if it still is). He didn't really move forward off that race until the following year, but he was sensationally fast that season. Formal Gold, Will's Way, and Skip Away put up #'s in the mid 120's virtually every race they ran that season. Unfortunately they kept facing each other and thus swapping wins. In an ordinary year any of them likely would have had a season for the ages. Throw in Gentleman for part of the year and Louis Quatorze until he got hurt and that was the most underrated and deepest older horse group we've had in a long while.

Shame that they all are considered failures at stud. Skip Away has had moderate success, but certainly hasn't ever reproduced anything near himself.
Louis is the best sire of the bunch and enjoyed a resurgence last year.
But can you imagine if the 5 horses you just named had had success at stud? Imagine the talent that would be out there.

I love Will's Way. :D

As well as hes done at stud I bet you could pick him up real cheap, put him right in the old backyard.
Send 4.95 and 3 cereal boxtops.:D

LOL! I know he's been quite the dud with the exception of Lion Tamer, but I loved that horse...

It's a shame...

This talk of yesteryear made me want to go back and re-watch the '89 Derby. Sunday Silence probably could have been DQ's at least twice there. The words "drunken sailor" come to mind in describing his stretch run.

I guess that would make Sunday Silence about a 180 then since the only time he lost to EG was at the irrelevant distance.

Holy Bull? He'd better hope Cigar wasn't in the same race as him.

What have you been smoking?
Irrelevant distance? You ever even see that race? Distance made no difference. Easy had him the whole way anytime he wanted him.
Now what made the difference? The difference was that they had tight security on the barn SS was in before the race and ole Doc Harthill couldnt stop by.
I think that theory is lot better than yours. A length, a nose and a neck as opposed to the length of the stretch?
The program should have read, Harthill off. ****, Easy Goer couldnt even have Lasix and Harthill's working on SS and doing his preraces. everyplace except NY that was, and he got his ass handed to him.

I guess its just "a coiincidence" that the one time they met and Harthill couldn't get near SS that SS got bitchslapped by a pole huh?

Holy Bull
Olympic - 117

Woodward - 116
Travers - 115
Haskell - 115
Dwyer - 119
Met Mile - 122
Derby - 85
Bluegrass - 113
Fla Derby - 115
FOY - 57
Hutch - 108

In Reality - 93
Futurity - 103
Alw - 91
MSW - 101

Cigar
BC Classic - 115
JC Gold Cup - 115
Woodward - 116
Pacific Classic - 111
Arlington - 117
Mass Cap - 112
Donn - 117

BC Classic - 117
JC Gold Cup - 111
Woodward - 111
Hol Gold Cup - 118
Mass Cap - 117
Pim Special - 114
Oaklawn - 121
GP Handicap - 116
Donn - 114
Alw - 108

Ghostzapper
Met Mile - 123

BC Classic - 124
Woodward - 114
Iselin - 128
Tom Fool - 120

Vosburgh - 116
King's Bishop - 106
Alw - 99
Alw - 102

Alw - 84
MSW - 99

or the one time was in new york, and easy goer was king of new york. plus the fact that a lot of horses, sunday presumably being one of them, don't like big sandy.
i don't buy the bald eagle being a cheat, not at all.