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King Glorious 11-24-2006 01:19 PM

Best Horse of 2006
 
Ok, so who was the best horse to race in the United States in 2006? I'm not asking who would get your vote for HOY. Many of u have certain standards that u want to see met in order for a horse to be HOY (ie wins in certain races, money earned, number of starts, etc). I understand and respect all of those opinions. But I was just thinking about what the Eclipse Awards actually state as their criteria and all it says is that u have to have at least one North American start to qualify. That's why we've seen so many European winners win our turf championships off of only one start here. It's why Arazi was one of the three finalists for HOY in 1991 off of only the Juvenile win here. So in that vein, I'd like to know simply what horse people think was the best horse to race in this country this year. Last year was an easy one as Ghostzapper was the clearly the best one even though he only ran once. Who is it this year? My vote goes to Discreet Cat.

brianwspencer 11-24-2006 01:32 PM

I would stick with Invasor. I like seeing horses run successfully at a classic distance. He's been remarkably consistent. Discreet Cat would be a close second for me. He may be the better horse in terms of overall talent (which we'll begin to find out soon here), but in terms of being the "best" I think you have to beat the best of the rest to be truly be the best in any year.

Honnorable mention for best show put on by any horse all year? Without a doubt Gorella. I don't think she's the "best" horse this year -- but she is sure as hell the most entertaining to watch!

SniperSB23 11-24-2006 01:40 PM

Invasor although I'll give small consideration to changing my vote if Discreet Cat is amazing on Saturday.

Danzig 11-24-2006 05:20 PM

barbaro




........

sumitas 11-24-2006 06:27 PM

I'm going to stick with the undefeated Barbaro. His Florida and Kentucky Derby races are awfully tough to beat.

saucon17 11-24-2006 06:34 PM

INVASOR

Because he was 4 for 4 against top notch quality horses in the United States

oracle80 11-24-2006 09:24 PM

Invasor was the best.
Barbaro probably would have been had things not gone wrong.
He really wasn't appreciated for how good he was because after his injury bernadinimania started.
Look back at what he did.
Wins at Delaware, Laurel, and Calder on grass.
Wins at Gulf in the slop and on a dry track.
Most dominant Derby win I ever saw.
Only defeat occurred when he went down to injury.
We really got screwed missing out on what we could have witnessed with him.
That one's always gonna hurt.

todko 11-24-2006 10:18 PM

Invasor is no lightning bolt -- his times are relatively slow for an older horse. Discreet Cat is the sprinter's version of Bernardini -- he's beaten nobody.

Barbaro could beat either. Any distance. Any surface. Any condition.

Hickory Hill Hoff 11-24-2006 10:37 PM

Discreet Cat with another smashing victory tomorrow. Barbaro would be my 2nd chioce

todko 11-24-2006 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
Discreet Cat with another smashing victory tomorrow. Barbaro would be my 2nd chioce

Against who? Sharp Humor iffy off a long layoff, bone chip injury, and one halfway respectable start back? That's the measure of greatness? Or Silver Train? Spotty to say the least. Abysmal last start.

Against how many? 4 others?

Discreet Cat doesn't break 1:34 and possibly even 1:35 tomorrow. Nothing special. Yet Beyer gives him a 118 or so speed figure. Same old story.

Why run Discreet Cat in the Breeders Cup when you can clean up easy money in overrated races like the Cigar? In the BC the truth might have been revealed.

Hickory Hill Hoff 11-24-2006 11:17 PM

After tomorrow...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by todko
Against who? Sharp Humor iffy off a long layoff, bone chip injury, and one halfway respectable start back? That's the measure of greatness? Or Silver Train? Spotty to say the least. Abysmal last start.

Against how many? 4 others?

Discreet Cat doesn't break 1:34 and possibly even 1:35 tomorrow. Nothing special. Yet Beyer gives him a 118 or so speed figure. Same old story.

Why run Discreet Cat in the Breeders Cup when you can clean up easy money in overrated races like the Cigar? In the BC the truth might have been revealed.

We shall see...that's why they run the races :)

repent 11-25-2006 01:06 AM

Im not sure DCat can do any more tomorrow to win the award.
hes going to romp easy and ppl will again ask why he has not faced more.
you either believe he is a freak now or are going to have to wait until next year.

the best horse of the year?
well,
HOY has to go to Invasor.
more than deserving.
but then again, look what DCat did to him in March.

interesting though, the best horse to run in this country after those 2 has to be Hurricane Run.
he ran horrible in his only US start and really was out of form by the Fall.
but if you want to know who was the best turf horse that stepped foot on US soil this year, thats it.


Repent

ateamstupid 11-25-2006 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas
I'm going to stick with the undefeated Barbaro. His Florida and Kentucky Derby races are awfully tough to beat.

LOL. The Florida Derby. LOL.

Kasept 11-25-2006 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todko
Invasor is no lightning bolt -- his times are relatively slow for an older horse. Discreet Cat is the sprinter's version of Bernardini -- he's beaten nobody.

Barbaro could beat either. Any distance. Any surface. Any condition.

Except Invasor is really NOT an older horse.. He's a Southern Hemisphere 3 year old, less than six months 'older' than our sophomores. When you win races like the PIM Special, Suburban, Whitney and BC Classic, you're the best horse, and Horse of the Year... Period.

Discreet Cat? The Jerome and Cigar Mile won't cut it as a HOY resume. And please don't drag out the ridiculous "UAE Derby". There aren't too many people that would count anything that transpires at Nad al Sheba as a legitimate result towards determining anything. (Ian Jory's two horses were likely drugged up by someone for gods sake... He's got the test results to prove it. And then there's the horrific treatment Buff Bradley and Brass Hat received as further evidence of the phony shenanigans that go on in the 'Desert Oasis'...)

Barbaro is Barbaro. It's difficult to quantify his half season in the context of those that ran complete seasons, but he wasn't the 'best' horse of 2006. Everyone is so quick to attack Bernardini's opponent list, but other than the great Derby performance, which itself is quantity over quality, who exactly was Barbaro beating in the Tropical Park Derby (Wise River 2nd, Lewis Michael 3rd); Holy Bull (Great Point 2nd, My Golden Song 3rd); and FL Derby (Sharp Humor 2nd, Sunriver 3rd)??? The also rans behind him in the three pre-Derby races were hardly frightening groups..

So that leaves a wonderful Derby performance as Barbaro's great accomplishment of the year. Fine. But it hardly makes him the 'best' horse of the year when there's a candidate that won 4 straight Grade I races that are among the most important of any racing year. And as a reminder of the initial point, Invasor has been facing elders from May onward. I can appreciate the adoration of Barbaro as much as anyone, but in these discussions, he simply doesn't qualify from a body of work basis.

Danzig 11-25-2006 07:50 AM

i answered the question, which was who you thought was the best, not who was HOY. invasor obviously deserves the award.

Thunder Gulch 11-25-2006 09:25 AM

Ouija Board was the best horse to win in the US this year. Invasor had the best season, and will be a deserving HOY, but OB is a future "Hall of Fame" mare and was a bad trip in 2005 from winning 3 straight BC races. Add her globetrotting resume in open company and you have one of the best in recent memory.

Seattleallstar 11-25-2006 09:40 AM

Invasor!! although I would side with Bernardini in a rematch at 10f 12f

2Hot4TV 11-25-2006 10:52 AM

Barbaro

Afew think Discreet Cat should be on top, but in this country he has just raced thru his conditions and dodged his real competion. He will race today and ship back home.

If a race horse doesn't run into his 4yo year they are to be remember as a flash in the pan.

ateamstupid 11-25-2006 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV
Barbaro

Afew think Discreet Cat should be on top, but in this country he has just raced thru his conditions and dodged his real competion. He will race today and ship back home.

If a race horse doesn't run into his 4yo year they are to be remember as a flash in the pan.

LOL!!! Guess Barbaro's a flash in the pan then?

kentuckyrosesinmay 11-25-2006 11:16 AM

I will always think that Bernardini was a monster. Although, I really liked both Barbaro and Invasor too.

However, Discreet Cat is going to put them all to shame in terms of talent. Hate the way the horse moves and hate the way he is built, but love his talent. Discreet Cat by a mile in the Mile today.

2Hot4TV 11-25-2006 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid
LOL!!! Guess Barbaro's a flash in the pan then?

That's how history will remember him.

Slewbopper 11-25-2006 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV
Barbaro



If a race horse doesn't run into his 4yo year they are to be remember as a flash in the pan.

I guess the two Big Reds, MOW and Sec, were flashes in the pan.

ateamstupid 11-25-2006 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todko
Discreet Cat doesn't break 1:34 and possibly even 1:35 tomorrow. Nothing special. Yet Beyer gives him a 118 or so speed figure. Same old story.

OOPS!!! I think he broke 1:35..

KirisClown 11-25-2006 03:06 PM

If I replied to this yesterday it would have been Invasor...

But it's all DISCREET CAT now...

King Glorious 11-25-2006 03:12 PM

After the BC, I was set to give HOY to Invasor even though I thought Discreet Cat was the better horse. After today, I can't in good conscience vote for Invasor as the best horse to run in NA in 2006. I just can't. If one race can win it in other categories, one race can win it in HOY. Discreet Cat is the best horse in the world. It's not even close.

brianwspencer 11-25-2006 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
After the BC, I was set to give HOY to Invasor even though I thought Discreet Cat was the better horse. After today, I can't in good conscience vote for Invasor as the best horse to run in NA in 2006. I just can't. If one race can win it in other categories, one race can win it in HOY. Discreet Cat is the best horse in the world. It's not even close.

It may very well be possible that DC is the best horse running -- but Invasor better get HOY.

One race is enough to win Eclipse HOY only when no other horse has accomplished anything of note during the rest of the year. Reeling off four straight GI races in N. America is certainly more than worthy for HOY. Passing your only real "test" (a five horse test) with flying colors and brilliance is a great thing to behold, but certaily does not constitute a resumé for HOY.

randallscott35 11-25-2006 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
It may very well be possible that DC is the best horse running -- but Invasor better get HOY.

One race is enough to win Eclipse HOY only when no other horse has accomplished anything of note during the rest of the year. Reeling off four straight GI races in N. America is certainly more than worthy for HOY. Passing your only real "test" (a five horse test) with flying colors and brilliance is a great thing to behold, but certaily does not constitute a resumé for HOY.

Keep your pants on there, Invasor is going to get. Relax.

sumitas 11-25-2006 03:35 PM

This horse has been managed beautifully. Don't forget, he won in Dubai earlier. And to come back and win from Dubai is not a common thing. He looked fantastic today under heavy competition.

ArlJim78 11-25-2006 03:35 PM

No way can horse of the year go to this horse despite his brillance.
He raced three times and beat a combined total of thirteen horses.
One race was an allowance, one a G2, and one G1 against mainly sprinters.

As far as breathtaking performances go I can't argue, he is sensational.

But please why do we always have to throw around and debate HOY.
Who cares unless you're part of the connections?

ArlJim78 11-25-2006 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer
It may very well be possible that DC is the best horse running -- but Invasor better get HOY.

One race is enough to win Eclipse HOY only when no other horse has accomplished anything of note during the rest of the year. Reeling off four straight GI races in N. America is certainly more than worthy for HOY. Passing your only real "test" (a five horse test) with flying colors and brilliance is a great thing to behold, but certaily does not constitute a resumé for HOY.

there is no chance Discreet Cat wins HOY. Period.

Samarta 11-25-2006 06:24 PM

This has been such a crazy year with the injury to Barbaro, the untimely deaths of a couple very nice horses that it is hard to say who is/was the best in 2006. For what it's worth here's my two cents.

In no particular order...

Barbaro - what a special horse, while I don't claim to be an expert, I've seen a lot horses run and I can't remember a horse hitting the ground as well as he did. If he stayed healthy, a return to the turf might have placed him among the all time great turf horses...

Bernardini - great year, multiple grade 1's and I think had he gotten a better ride in the BC he would have won there too....I thought Castellano moved way to early on him...easy to call that one from the living though I suppose...only knock I give him is the short and quality of the fields her ran against in the late Summer....

Invasor - 4 for 4 and the BC Champ....kinda takes me back 2 years...not trying to compare for all you Zapper fanatics...

Discreet Cat - might be the best of the lot, but doesn't have the credentials.....yet

Ouija Board - All class and a pleasure to watch. Resume speaks for itself....If she wins in Japan tonight, I think it should vault her to the top of many lists and truly one of the all time greats....

So with my two cents, I have to give the nod to Ouija Board....

pgardn 11-25-2006 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
there is no chance Discreet Cat wins HOY. Period.


Yeps.

Invasor easily. Bernardini a drifting second.

King Glorious 11-25-2006 07:07 PM

My thing is this though.....if u want to change the criteria for winning it to "most accomplished horse in North America" then they should change it and then there would be no debate at all as to who is the horse of the year. But when the only defined criteria says the best horse to race in NA during the year, then it opens up a debate. I don't know if any of u are basketball fans but back in 1993, they gave the NBA MVP award to Charles Barkley. It was a hollow award because then Michael Jordan, the acknowledged best player in the world, promptly went out and kicked Barkley's ass in the championship. Same thing in 1997 when they gave it to Karl Malone and then Jordan went out and kicked his ass in the championship. How does it make sense to give someone else the award as the best player when Michael Jordan was still in his prime? I personally would feel like the HOY award would ring hollow if it's not given to the best horse, especially when that horse fits that stated criteria. I could see if it said that u had to win x number of races or x amount of money or x number of grade ones in order to win the award. But it doesn't. So that's why I can't vote for Invasor if I don't feel like he's the best. Most accomplished without a doubt.....but not the best.

ArlJim78 11-25-2006 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
My thing is this though.....if u want to change the criteria for winning it to "most accomplished horse in North America" then they should change it and then there would be no debate at all as to who is the horse of the year. But when the only defined criteria says the best horse to race in NA during the year, then it opens up a debate. I don't know if any of u are basketball fans but back in 1993, they gave the NBA MVP award to Charles Barkley. It was a hollow award because then Michael Jordan, the acknowledged best player in the world, promptly went out and kicked Barkley's ass in the championship. Same thing in 1997 when they gave it to Karl Malone and then Jordan went out and kicked his ass in the championship. How does it make sense to give someone else the award as the best player when Michael Jordan was still in his prime? I personally would feel like the HOY award would ring hollow if it's not given to the best horse, especially when that horse fits that stated criteria. I could see if it said that u had to win x number of races or x amount of money or x number of grade ones in order to win the award. But it doesn't. So that's why I can't vote for Invasor if I don't feel like he's the best. Most accomplished without a doubt.....but not the best.

Who is the best horse if not the most accomplished. Define "best"!

King Glorious 11-25-2006 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
Who is the best horse if not the most accomplished. Define "best"!

I can't define it for everyone. It's up to each individual. I think it's just something that u feel. We've all been watching these horses long enough to know when u get that feeling that u've seen a special horse. Let me ask u to answer this question. Did u feel that last year, Saint Liam was the best horse to race in 2005? Or did u feel it was Ghostzapper? No question that Saint Liam accomplished more but I also think there's no question that GZ was the best horse to actually race last year. To me, that's as close an example as I can get to how the best horse doesn't necessarily have to be the one that accomplished the most.

King Glorious 11-25-2006 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
My understanding is the award is for the horse that accomplished the most in the year. Invasor has, plain and simple. You're thinking way too much into it, and frankly, who cares anyway? As for the MVP awards you are talking about, in those years, Barkley and Malone had better overall years than Jordan, which is why they got the award. It's not who is the overall best, it's who had the best year.

That might be your understanding of the award but take a look at what the actual defined criteria is. Doesn't say most accomplished. Is says the best. That leaves it up to each individual.

No way that Barkley or Malone had better years than Jordan. Their teams played much better than they had in previous season and that's why they got the awards. Same reason why Nash just got it. They didn't have better seasons than Jordan.

Either way, I'm not thinking too much into it. Just asking opinions and giving my own. I'd have no problem with anyone voting for Invasor, Bernardini, or even Barbaro. As long as they are voting for who they think is the best horse.

ArlJim78 11-25-2006 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious
I can't define it for everyone. It's up to each individual. I think it's just something that u feel. We've all been watching these horses long enough to know when u get that feeling that u've seen a special horse. Let me ask u to answer this question. Did u feel that last year, Saint Liam was the best horse to race in 2005? Or did u feel it was Ghostzapper? No question that Saint Liam accomplished more but I also think there's no question that GZ was the best horse to actually race last year. To me, that's as close an example as I can get to how the best horse doesn't necessarily have to be the one that accomplished the most.

So we're talking about feelings here? Okay....
Did I feel that St. Liam was the best horse to race in 2005? I'm glad you asked me that question. Honestly I think in terms of only who is the best for a particular race I'm handicapping. I couldn't care less who a bunch of people FEEL is the best horse of the year. It makes no difference to me. I know that in reality there often is no one consensus best horse of the year. I don't wager on who the HOY or who the best horse is so I don't care.

When I handicap a race you better believe that I care about who the best horse is going to be that day and I certainly look beyond the individual records of accomplishments. I may FEEL that the best horse is an unheralded horse that doesn't have the best record. But you see the difference is that the race is then run and I find out if my feelings were correct. then its a matter of fact who was better on that day, no longer just a feeling.

We can sit around all night and toss out names of horses that we feel were the best in 2006. At the end everyone will be correct because its based on feelings. Sorry, not interesting for me.


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