Problems with Hollywood park's new track?
 

Saturdays races went into the night because they were working the tractors over the track between races.

I understand that they worked on the track over night and have stop training on the main track this morning because of problems. ( some break downs )

There have been some rumors of trainers reporting some problems with the track all week long.

Tough to play something that they are PLAYING with.

I just can't wager on these synthetic tracks. Perhaps some day they will get them down, but we have this at Hollywood, Woodbines surface falling apart during the last cold spell up there, and Keeneland's surface making speed a dirty word.
The biggest problem I have is that these surfaces were sold by their marketers as infallible and maintenance free, you can read the literature and see it for yourselves on their websites.
I know this is gonna get kicked to the poly room, but really, if they lied or misjudged the surfaces to the point that we've seen already, what else have they mislead or erred about?
There was a big rush to judgement without the proper experimentation or due diligence being done.
I think in the end the tracks that haven't rished to judgement will end up sticking with dirt.
The biggest problem with this is that the expense of installing it 10-12 mill, locks you in to the stuff. How do you rip it out if things go badly when you've already kicked up that kinda loot? Its like being trapped.
I love playing Cali racing, I truly do, and miss being able to play it outside the grass races now, just as I missed playing Keeneland. But life goes on, and Delaware, Calder, Churchill and Aquedust all have cards today on the dirt.

I'm listening to Roger Stien on a local radio show and it's all about what they have been doing with the track.

They have been playing with the surface and have got it to the point that the trainers are split on what they want. The surface was suppost to be maintain itself. A do nothing, add nothing , but they couldn't leave it alone.

Todd Pletcher's barn had the horse come up lame after thier work this morning.

http://www.racingjason.com/ Brad Free is on right now and he will have a clocker on before the hour is out.

True it will get kicked to the poly room ,but some information is far to important to be put in a place where few will read.

My biggest problem with it is this, they haven't left themselves any outs.
More than one wise man has given me the advice in my life "always leave yourself an out" meaning don't lock yourself into something with no chance to get out of it.
The cost itself of 10-12 mill means if its not working out that by all practical means you have no options to change it.
I think this rush to judgement was a terrible mistake.

there's gotta be a warranty, etc on this stuff. if it doesn't perform to their satisfaction, no doubt they would have some rights regarding pulling it up, moeny back, etc. how could they not? turfway had trouble, they had to have some major work done on a brand new surface. then woodbine with their issues, and now this.

The problems they are having at HP have been created by the track maintance crew. IMO.

I do wonder what will happen in the summer time when it's around 110 degrees.

The stuff will probably be ok in the long run.

But the problem is if your track among the first tracks to put it in, then you are the proverbial guinea pig. You cannot substitute laboratory results for real experience.

I liken it to that eye-surgery that remedies poor sight. Sure it may work, but what problems will these people have in 15 or 20 years?

I have lousy eyesight and would love to not wear contacts but I'll wait to have the surgery until someone can show me a picture of the Mayo Clinic Board of Directors with nobody in the photo wearing glasses.

And the probelms at Woodbine were supposedly created by the extreme cold.
Any new invention or innovation has to be tested and observed in all relevant conditions in order to understand its limitations and problems.
Due diligence was not done with this stuff.

Thats what I was trying to say Stud.
Lab experiments are too often done in vacuum conditions.
You get to the real world and folks say whoops, goofed.

Stuff is unreal, its racing evolution.

Im having polytrack laid down at my home as we speak. Should be better for my dog to get over in route to ****ting on the front lawn.

Are you kidding
 

Extreme cold in Canada, you think they would have tested under that condition...

Mike is absolutely right. It is painfully obvious at this point in time that wagering on these new surfaces is pretty much close your eyes and hope. Sure, you are going to be right once in a while but at least so far it is definitely a different surface than grass and dirt...

PSH

When you are in line to get a 10-12 million dollar contract, you promise the moon and stars until the ink is dry on the paper and your money is wired. Only after that do you start to address possible problems.
I have a real problem with the bill of goods that the public and racetracks were sold. Sure sounds like a bait and switch to me. Imagine they never tested the stuff in extreme cold and then sold it to a Canadian track? LOL!!

If its clumping and freezing in Florence Kentucky, chances are its going to do the same in Canada. Should be funny in a few weeks to hear all the tracks crying about how they were mislead into using a surface they thought would boost handle. Jerkoffs

Yeah, the DRF is going to have to come up with a new stat category in the pp's. Have to put Tomlinson to work as well. Gonna need lifetime stats and Tomlinson numbers on how horses perform on "frozen synthetic clump" tracks.
Imagine that bs? How about going to the track and hearing somebody say they like the 5 horse because he loves frozen synthetic clumps!!!!!???
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Martin Pranza (Racing secratary) "97% chance that we will have racing today at Hollywood Park".

The problem is not knowing how to deal with the moisture that builds up in the material and the equipment that is used on a dirt track is too heavy to grade the surface and it appears to leave waves in the track.

Mike, you're really going to milk this particular " I told you so "....aren't you;) .

I, of course, agree and can't say I'm not enjoying seeing all the problems. I'll never understand people's hurry to embrace something that hasn't been tested. Never said Polytrack was bad, per se, but accepting anything without an extensive testing period hardly seemed sensible. At least these unsurprising, and immediate, problems should give everybody legitimate cause for pause.

Always glad to see one of the only public voices of reason, Andy Beyer, proven right once again.

well, he was, after all, due....

I don't have any doubt that training horses on these surfaces is far superior to training horses on dirt.Most trainers in the L.A. area have gone out of their way to get their horses to train over the cushion at HWD.ONEIL,MULLINS,HARRINGTON etc. all prefer it.As far as using it as a racing surface goes,after what I saw with that biased cuppy sht at the Breeders Cup,there is no way it can't be better than dirt.They may have some problems with tweaking it,but it's like comparing an Apple to a piece of Apple Pie. Even a bad piece of Apple Pie is just better than a plain Apple.)If you like to cap using daily biases,then you'll never want the biases(dirt) to go away.They are gunna have some trouble with these new surfaces,but they will pale in comparison to the constant daily biases on dirt tracks.If the artificial surfaces have biases,they will be consistent biases.The 1st horse out of the gate no longer wins every dirt race on Friday nights at HWD PARK.That's a huge improvement,but if you like huge daily biases,you will never like giving up the dirt.Whatever problem they have at HWD today,pales in comparison to that joke of a track we saw on Breeders Cup Day.If you still think that was a fair track,then take it up with yet another observer:

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do...8&subs=0&arc=0

You don't know the half of it!

i would say basing choosing poly on one days racing at churchill will give you skewed results.
i guess it all depends on what kind of bias you want...keeneland went from favoring speed to favoring closers, it's still a bias.

Churchill couldnt be any less cuppy

I want the daily biases eliminated as much as possible,and the artificial is a step forward for that.I am fine with a consistent surface bias(favoring speed or raters consistently for days and weeks etc.)The daily inside/outside biases got to go,and if articial is better for that,then I am all for it.After that sht at Churchill,I will never favor dirt to an artificial surface.That was dirt,and that was a pathetic situation.People often have 1 shot to win a Breeders Cup race,and how can you claim that the surface that day gave all a good fair chance? It didn't.So,I am not saying that these artificial surfaces are perfect,but I am saying that you can't do worse than sticking to the same old bias friendly dirt.

are they going to run today scuds..

Your buddy the trainer once told me something I have never forgotten. he said "Whenever you see a bunch of English guys in suits trying to sell or push something, run as far away as fast as you can". The man has never given me advice that wasn't proven right at some point in time.

Don't know.Should have an announcement in the next hour.I will take this surface over dirt anytime though.If you want catsht going gate to wire,then stick to the dirt at Anita.

ah, here's a joke for you...(anyone who has owned a brit-made car will relate)

why aren't there any english-made computers?

they couldn't find a way to make them leak oil onto your desk.

At 11:30 pacific time they are going to gallop 5 or six horses with race riding jockeys to determine if the track is ready to be raced on.

It appears they have been too quick to respond to everybodys complaints and concerns about the track. Right intentions, just wrong results.

Trying to make everybody happy got them in a spot that they they weren't equipped to get out of.

the old adage, attempt to please everyone--you end up pleasing no one.

everyone should just stick to pleasuring themselves....:D

Hollywoods 1st post time has been moved back to 1pm

I think they're going to run today.Flores wants to,but Nakatani may nix it.Depends on which faction wins out.Some want it 100%,and it won't be 100% until Wednesday.Some changes in elevation still exist(although getting much better.)

run dammit

Game on,boys.

Holy ****. Just watched the 2nd race from Hollywood(I missed the 1st) and as they rounded the turn into the stretch the amount of kickback I saw was incredible. It looked like huge amounts of kickback were flying straight back behind the horses. Is this the problem they were having with the track?
The kickback looked fierce and was flying straight back, not hanging in a cloud like at Turfway. Thats gotta sting.

They're having problems with elevation changes on the track.They improved them enough to run,but will work on them even more for Wednesday.I believe the biggest problem is over by the break coming out of the clubhouse turn.

havisu s ride is so suspect...wtf

The problem is human error taking care of the surface. The surface is working. Injuries are way down. The surface they put in is not as good as poly though, but that is coming from somebody that is partial to KY, not CA.

So far the number of injuries is way down," Panza said. "The first seven to eight weeks of training it was staggering how few injuries we had. Then as we got horses with physical issues from other tracks, the numbers picked up, but they are nowhere comparable to last year or previous years. This time last year I had 1,100 horses stabled here; this year there are 1,800.

I noticed the huge amount of kickback today also. They usually don't have that much kickback. They were tinkering with the track all morning trying to even it out. I think they dug it up much deeper than normal and that's why there is so much kickback.

There are actually large chunks of rubber in this track. Some of them are about half the size of golf balls. The rubber in the track at Keeneland is much more finely ground. They don't have big chunks of rubber in the track at Keeneland.

Anyway, I don't think the problems at Hollywood are too serious. I think they'll be able to straighten things out. The problems at Woodbine look much more serious.

Rupert,
Sit down cause I'm going tell you something, and I don't want you to fall down if you're standing up.
I agree with you.
Yes, I'll say it again, I agree with you.
That said, and I'm sure Mike and others will chime in, does anyone besides me see that poly plays differently at different tracks, in different climates?
Where it's cold (frosted) like Woodbine, it seperates.
Keenland is finer.
Hollywood, I honestly don't know much.
Sure, I'm all for the safety of the horses, but haven't some been hurt on it anyway?
Just my two pennies...poly in one place is comething completely different in other places.
DTS

thing is, turfway had to have the poly people come back in and do a lot of work after the first racing season. now woodbine with the cold. so what happens in cali when the temp soars? guess we'll see.
people rushed to hollywood because it was felt the cushion would be better than the typical trick out there. maybe it is, but i don't think it's working the miracle that so many thought it would. it has its own issues. and i don't think smack dab in the middle of their season is when they should be trying to figure this out.