belmont 8th today/just an awful ride by you guessed it!!!
 

ANybody happen to see the Belmont 8th today?
Twilight zonish ride by Gomez on the favored 1 horse. Going silky smooth approaching the turn and appears to have a lotta run. Gomez seemed almost puzzled on what to do and is our moved and blocked in by Jean Luc Samyn who is older than the dinosaurs in Jurassic park and has teh reflexes of a coma patient.
Johnny V may return by Belmont day and it will be a beautiful day in the neighborhood when that occurs. Gomez has won very few races in NY since deputizing for Johnny and most of his wins so far have been unremarkable rides on Pletcher horses who were tons best.
His ride on Almansoon the other day still has people I know vomiting.
Be interesting to see if Gomez sticks around once he is promptly evicted from his mounts. My guess is that he goes home to Cali and splits with his agent.

lol....I LOVE IT

I saw the race, but didn't see it at all like you did. Gomez had clear run for the length of the stretch, the horse simply had nothing.

sorry o that horse the other day in the six was not of the same talent..the sheets showed it wasnt ride it was horse..dont know about the ride today though

Hooves witha ll due respect I've been reading sheets for 20 years and there is more to it than that. Dide the sheets show that the eventual winner had hung horrificallly 4 times in a row as the heavy chalk getting perfect trips in all thsoe races?
As well, 2nd time starters show the biggest improvement on teh sheets, which Pletcher was supposed to do.
Did the sheets show you that she was only sprint prepped in her debut with an eye on stretching? Did the sheets show you that her last two works were up here a 1/2 mile form my house and thatthe clockers up here were tapping out on her and that the barn told everyone she couldnt lose?
Give me a break, ok? The guy wrangled teh horse back and didnt cut her loose until the race was over. The winner looked great on teh sheets the last three times she ran, and hung with no excuse in any of em.

Sorry again but the Almansoon loss the other day had nothing to do with the ride. That horse was given every chance and was soundly beaten.

Yeah horses who are overlyrestrained by riders when they have run down the backside will do that to you. especially fillies. I guess thats why one of us watches races and buys horses for leading trainers and owners.

So, because you watch races and buy horses for leading trainers and owners means you also know how to ride better than the leading rider in the nation?

You are not the only person who watches races and buys horses for leading trainers and owners and I'm sure that if we surveyed all of them we would find many that agree with my assessment that Gomez did not lose the race for Almansoon.

Well thast just great Jim. How about telling us all about YOUR credentials.

Mike, don't you think it's a little lame to be challenging someones credentials on an internet forum? This is the land of make believe. It's not necessary for you to unfurl the banner of your accomplishments each and every day. My opinion of your racing knowledge would be no different if you were Joe Schmo from Kokomo and had never set foot inside a racetrack.

Also, finding the person with the the greatest credentials does not necessarily lead you to the truth. I'm sure that you know of people in the racing industry whose opinions you wouldn't just blindly accept.

We are discussing the outcome of a race that has already been run and I saw it with my own eyes and came to a different conclusion than you. I don't care if Todd Pletcher himself came on here and said "Gomez cost us the victory on Almansoon a few days ago at Belmont", I would still stick with my opinion about what I saw.

But if you want to debate credentials then you have to put yours up against Todd Pletcher's. He is after all the guy who has entrusted Gomez to ride for him. You call the guy a junkie, Pletcher has given him mounts for the most successful stables in the country. Every rider has faults, including Gomez, but the record shows that this has been a successful relationship and the Pletcher machine rolled on strongly even with Gomez in the irons.

I agree to some extent. BUt if you truly trust in Pletcher's opinion, how much would you be willing to wagre against me that when Johnny returns(hopefully real soon) that Gomez is promptly evicted from those mounts? I mean if he were as good as you claim he is, would Pletcher not continue to ride him first call?

Gomez bagels yesterday and so far today
 

His physical skill is amazing, his agility and strength are frightening. But the guy is as dumb as nails and thats why he is so inconsistent.
Bagels yesterday and bageling so far again today despite riding very live horses. Johnny is consistent, Gomez is not.

he blew it on Western revenge
 

And Arljim, I know one owner and trainer who aren't real pleased with him today. His premature move on Western Revenge into the strong headwind in the 5th was what I am talking about. Be willing to wager heavily that he is a highly emotional guy whose moves are morfe often the result of emotions than they are calculated like Bailey's were and Johnny's are. Thos eguys study pp's until they are blue in the face and know whwre they would like to be(in theory, you cant control all teh variables in a horse race going 35 mph) and what the competition does as well.
Strong headwind on the backside early in the card was producing crawling fractions early(teh wind) and fly home times in the lane with the strong tailwind at their backs*were you aware of this Arljim? Some guys watch races, and other guys WATCH RACES". Gomez is sitting perfectly on the hedge drafting in behind the strong wind. Decides it might be nice to rush up the rail(horse likes to rate) and use up a lotta energy and now run into the wind. Tires for third. Nice ride garret, nice ******* ride you little mental midget.

I wouldn't wager on it, but my guess would be that as soon as Johnny V is healthly he regains all the mounts. There will most likely be a transition period of some type, not an abrupt push of Gomez out of town.

JV is the better, more consisent rider in my opinion and I believe that there is a bond of loyalty between he and Pletcher. I just feel that the gap in ability between the two riders isn't as large as you were claiming.

mike we all know what you do..i respect your opinion..but i tried to talk you off him as a single....from my capping he was 2nd best..and it played out that way...but ..if you have gomez on him and you hate the guy..why single him..

I WATCHED that race and the moment I saw the quick move on the backstretch I thought it might have been a big mistake. If you want my opinion that move cost Western Revenge the race. I call them like I see them. Still not a horrible day, he won the feature, a couple of seconds and a third.

Arl Jim, that move was as stupid as anything I have ever seen. I'm not sure if it cost him the race but I'm 50-50 that it did. Johnny doesn't make moves like that, ever. This guy is probably a real emotional ADHD type of guy and if you could ever get him to do his homework with the DRF and chill out, he could be the greatest. But I'm not real optimistic about the prospects.

Gomez salvages one even money winner in two days at Belmont
 

gee, what hero huh? And this is the greatest thing since sliced bread? You have to be kidding me.

I just looked at the entries for Friday at Belmont... Western Revenge is entered in the first race... with GARRET GOMEZ on board again!!! Oracle, I'm SURE you have an opinion on this!! :)

Yeah, hes on because of me. Read the story on another thread.
Condensed version was taht he stopped by the barn on Sunday to apologize for what he did. Carlos was aware of the unhappiness with the ride and was gonna name someone else. I was stunned that he had actually apologized and said well that was classy, if he apologized then go ahead and name him back. Usually if a rider apologizes for a ride it means hes aware that he owes you one. Probably not that he was losing any sleep over losing a mount on a 35 claimer, but Carlos is red hot and has been sending out some nice horses, smart jocks(especially those who have relocated) like to keep all avenues open. Seer I have a soft side, its EXTREMELY small, but its there.

been watching the belmony replay show, garret gomez has been absolutely horrible, Pletcher was better off making Luzzi or Decarlo the stable jock

Decarlo handles the Monmouth string and Bejarano has the Churchill string. Luzzi is quite competent and a good winter jockey but I think he was looking to find a replacement of the highest quality that he could. Prado would never take it, despite what some morons would have you believe. I've read a few of these geniuses who think Gomez was "chosen" over him. No way Frieze/Prado would have taken it. They get all the best horses that Pletcher doesnt train. They knew Johnny would be back so why the hell would he burn bridges with all his main clients for a few months of mounts. Gomez was the most likely replacement and had ridden well, especially in stakes, the last year or so.
Problem appears to be what I predicted, the style of riding in NY. In Ny its long been a tradition(started by Angel Cordero and Jorge Velasquez) that you don't just ride your own horse, you ride the others as well. By this I mean that you will often see Prado and Velazquez lock guys on main competitors in a trap or jackpot and keep them locked in. If you want to get a hole in NY you have to get lucky and have the horse in front of you drift out or in, cause those guys arent letting you out, no way no how. Garrett likes to "make things happen" with his style of riding. Likes to save ground and try to split horses. When it works(like on Artie in the BC) he looks like a genius, when it doesn't work(like in the BC sprint when Edgar swung the door shut as he heard him coming and said "where do you think you are going?") he doesnt look so hot.
Its a completely different ballgame here.

only jockey out west that could handle the job would be PVAL!

[QUOTE .... a trap or jackpot and keep them locked in.... Its a completely different ballgame here.[/quote]

ok, trap I understand. locked in, I follow, What the heck is a "jackpot?" got me there...

Oh come on Stud, and old warrior like you never heard the term jackpot? YOu will hear jocks use the term a lot. Its when you are really screwed, like two horses ahead of you and a few outside, basically you are all dressed up with no place to go.
One example of the NY style of riding was what Edgar did to Pval on Derby Day in the Woodford Reserve. Edgar was on Good Reward and absolutely kept Pval hemmed in the whole way, refused to let him out and believe me it was on purpose. The blimp shot showed it pretty good. Pval knew he was in a jam 1/2 mile into the race and if you watch the blimp shot he is leaning to his right trying to get out and trying to get Prado to give him a hole. Prado wouldnt budge, he knew what he was doing. Even turning for home, Prado had him locked up. By the time he finally shook clear, it was too late, game over. Can't wait to bet Cacique back in the Manhattan.

Well training for the best in business has its hassles. And I'm sure that a few of his owners may have had issues with Pvals past, that wasnt gonna happen. Besides with Pval back in Frankels good graces out there, and with the new agent really booking him on top stuff, hes the guy who won in the whole situation. he and Gomez were dominating out there and with Gomez gone he really gets the lions share of the best mounts to himself now.

Maybe Edgar ought to focus more on winning the race with his mounts like Good reward as opposed to contributing to someone else's downfall (P Val and Cacique). If I recall Good Reward was up the track in this race. Was it a big consolation for Edgar knowing he helped beat the race favorite or is he bed buddies with Garret Gomez and set the whole thing up so his sweetiepie would win with English Channel? :rolleyes:

You mean like he focused in the Derby? Or on the other mounts that have made him so much cash in his career?
Look he has no way of knowing if his horse is gonna fire or not in the lane. Reward is a quirky horse who actually won the Manhattan last year. What he did was lock in one of his main competitors so that if he had run he would get the jump on him.
Oh, and I don't think he has any buddies when he is out there in a race, hes a warrior in the saddle. He and Johhny even get into it with each other at times. Thats how it should be.
As far as Gomez goes, ask him if he though Edgar was his buddy on Cup day when he got the door smacked right in his face when he tried to come between Edgar and another horse. Every jock in Ny knows, you don't try to split Edgar and someone else, that door is gonna close in your face if you try it.

Gomez
 

Oracle:

If you have such a bias against Gomez or for that matter any other jockey or trainer why play him? If you believe he is on the best horse and can't stand the guy just pass the race. If he is on the favorite who you don't like that should give you an even bigger opportunity...

I am sure all of us have gone through periods when a particular jockey was costing us $$$ and if that is the case one should just not play the guy...
Gomez has certainly won some big races in the last year and not just at the So Cal circuit.... I am not a big fan of his just because of his past and trouble that he has gotten in.

Yes, Johnny V is the best there is... But with White Mercedes Pletcher his horses average what 3-2....

Sorry Oracle 80
 

Sorry, Meant Seattle All Star

White Mercedes, LOL! Thats very funny. :D

Any jockey could have ridden Barbaro in the Derby. Some would have won by more, some less depending on the style. The only jockey that could have botched up that ride is Mike Luzzi. :eek:

Thats ok, look, Gomez has been riding the same White Mercedes horses(I know what you mean, but you are sadly uninformed if you think Todds success is dude to Doc Allday, he plays a part, hes the best in the business, but Todd is a genius and in watching his horses train you can see some of the things he does that makes him the best, but i digress) .
Stat- In over three weeks of riding in NY he has won with TWO mounts for Pletcher at Belmont. One Safari Queen was 6-5(and that wasnt a great ride) and Honey Ryder at 3-2. Now thats a fact Jack. only TWO winners for Todd at the meet. The other 7 have been for other trainers.
The level at which he is spoken of by some leads to to evaluate him as if he were the very best or one of the best. I can give you three horses he blew this weekend with bad rides. Two of em I bet, and one I didn't and cashed on because he blew the ride. Hes not Johnny, not even close. His mistakes are always mental. Noone is gonna tell you hes not amazingly strong and agile, ist pretty obvious that he is. But at the very highest level of the game you have to sharpen your mental skills as well. He needs plenty of work in this area.

By the way PSH
 

By the way, my clocker tells me if he doesnt win at least three races tomorrow that he should be run outta town on a rail.
Both of his two year olds should win. The turf horse in the first as well.

Thank you Oracle.

3/1, 3/5 and 2/1 on the morning line though. I suspect the only horse who has a chance of going off better than even money is the horse in the first race because of the large field. The 2 year olds will be 1/5 and 3/5 respectively. Why even bother carding races like this, its whats ruining the sport and turning people over to auto racing :D

Exactly!! I was so mad a Pval at the 1/2 mile pole in that race 'cause I knew he had Cacique trapped at the rail.
Maybe I'm way off here(especially considering this has been a Gomez bashing thread!), but I'm starting to think Pval doesn't ride as well in large fields as he does in the typical small fields you see on the west coast. Now, I'm make a generalization based on Pval's rides on Cacique in the Kilroe mile and Woodford Reserve, but in both cases, I thought Pval didn't handle the large fields too well. He went way wide in the Kilroe and got trapped in the Woodford... I can't wait for Cacique to run in the Manhattan too, but I'm hoping someone else has the mount if it's a large field again. ;)



One example of the NY style of riding was what Edgar did to Pval on Derby Day in the Woodford Reserve. Edgar was on Good Reward and absolutely kept Pval hemmed in the whole way, refused to let him out and believe me it was on purpose. The blimp shot showed it pretty good. Pval knew he was in a jam 1/2 mile into the race and if you watch the blimp shot he is leaning to his right trying to get out and trying to get Prado to give him a hole. Prado wouldnt budge, he knew what he was doing. Even turning for home, Prado had him locked up. By the time he finally shook clear, it was too late, game over. Can't wait to bet Cacique back in the Manhattan.[/quote]

Oracle 80
 

Oracle 80:

Can i infer from previous posts on this thread that you own Western Expression and possibly other horses?

If so, best of luck on Friday with Western .....

PSH

Skip Away The one in the third is the one that will roll big time. The Monmouth shipper. My clocker says in the 2nd that Hough can fly also. Says its a two horse race.
MY clocker is also my friend and he trained for over 30 years. Hes the most repected guy in NY by the trainers. Hes a private clocker and when the trainers wanna know what their horse REALLY worked in as well as how he looked doing it, Joe's the guy they ask. Hes on the OTB channel show in August up here as well. One of my best friends and mentors, taught me a lot of the inside things and about training and how to really understand how training works. Hes hooked up with clockers at other tracks, they trade info with one another.
When its a baby race, hes my source on the firsters.
When its a two year old race or a race with fir

hell yes im soooo on this horse he was one of my singles...would have gave me a nice payday....

I like horse racing and auto racing. :cool:

Anything with speed... :D