Lord Derby
 

if you are gonna retire OB, please do so now....let her go out on top....give us that pleasure.

I just watched the replay...twice...I swear I though I saw OB snicker and say "bye bye little girl" as she strolled by Wait A While:D

the way i described it in my blog was that it looked like Dettori was sitting in a Ferrari surrounded by men sitting on bicycles, and he was just waiting to punch the gas and get paid for it.

never in doubt. she is a ****ing incredible mare and one that i feel lucky to have been able to see

"great" gets used to describe way too many horses. She is one that truly deserves to be called great.

Love this mare! No way she can be replaced for a while. Has run well everywhere she's been asked - US, UK, Ireland, Dubai, Hong Kong, etc. Would likely be a 3 time F&M Turf Champ if she didnt get impossible outside post and no pace outside of Intercontinental in 2005

OR if the race weren't ten furlongs!

look,
I recognize her greatness.
she has been the at the top of the filly and mare middle distance division for the past 3 years.

but if she is all of this that I have been hearing the past 5 days,
what the hell does that say about Intercontinental?
and dont give me that crap about her not being in top form in 2005.
they still brought her over.
she ran a bang up race a month later in HK.

my only point is that she was beatable, just as Wait A While was shown to be.
she came back and so will Wait A While(I assume she stays in training).



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Bill Finley had this thing on deserving Eclipse hopefuls and some he didn't think did deserve it. I think he's being a horse's butt. He goes on this big whine about not voting for OB cuz she's only had one race here and what happened in England doesn't count--sometimes I subscribe to that but here? You've got to be kidding me. He figures Wait a While and Gorella are better candidates with 3 GSWs each (I assume that's right, I didn't check). Point is you think either of those mares, neither of whom threw in a stellar performance Saturday, in any way deserves the Eclipse over the queen? She's clearly a phenomenal mare.

I can see not giving it to Red Rocks or something but for pete's sake...not giving Ouija Board her coronation is like only having one Pringles chip--can't do it.

normally I agree that 1 race is enough.
and this year I think The Board is probably deserving.
but I would not argue with any voter who voted for Wait A While.
she was just off the charts good.
similar campaign to the 3YO campaign Kittens Joy put together when he won the male version of the award.


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I always thought Intercontinental was way better than she ever showed save last year's BC. I actually bet her on the fact that she had the jockey change and if Beranajo (sp?) let her run the way she wanted to run she could very well steal it. Too bad the jockey change never came sooner. She was a lovely hot headed mare.

Pent..

No one is indicting "I.C." while praising "O.B." But she left the '05 F&M from the 13 hole and Intercontinental got away clean on the front end and Ouija Board fell short.. Was also on well less than firm turf (which she prefers a great deal), and she was indeed coming around from a career-threatening injury. She got beat on the square as Ed Dunlop and Lord Derby readily acknowledge, but let's be honest; any kind of pace challenge up front last year and Ouija very likely is a winner of three straight F&M Turfs.

The horse that gets lost in the shuffle in these discussions continually is Film Maker... Directly behind Ouija three years in a row...

one win was enough to give high chaparral the eclipse. with anticipation won how many races that year, and came in second in the bc--if that vote was valid then...i say give it to ouija board now.

win or lose her next couple, she goes out on top regardless.
can you imagine if fans were this way years ago? noor and citations famous duels would never have happened, as panic mode would have set in when cy started losing. take him to the farm, you're tarnishing his image!!! bah.

Yeah, but Film Maker has also gone 2nd or 3rd to a lot of worse horses too and she only seems to win when facing G2 or G3 company (she does have one G1 win in the '03 Queen Elizabeth though). I think more credit goes to her trainer for having her at her best for the BC...although I do say her 4 race campaign this year was a bit weak.

As much as I love Ouija Board, that's a ridiculous statement with no basis in fact. Truth is she's not even the best mare in the world. That accolade goes to Pride.


With regard continuing to race her, for people to suggest that she should retire now because of the risk of her reputation being dented in defeat is to ignore the fact that it is through her being adventurously campaigned that she has built up her reputation in the first place. Whilst the Japan Cup is a tough race to win - a top 3 finish there will be a fine effort - the Hong Kong races are often relatively easy pickings - she didn't need to run close to her best to win the Vase there last year. If all is well with her it would be senseless not to run her.

Woah there, are you suggesting that a horse can only be considered the best in the world if they go to the Breeders' Cup or compete on more than one continent...cos if you are, as you are well aware, that's just being fatuous. Only reason Pride didn't turn up at Churchill Downs was because she needed supplementing...they considered doing so for the Turf, but went for the Champion Stakes at Newmarket instead, where she won readily. Pride has run against only her sex in just two of her last 15 races, she won both readily.

Pride also ran in Hong Kong last year, but went for the more competitive HK Cup rather than the Vase, and ran to a better level than Ouija Board in finishing second. However and more importantly, she has run in races sidestepped by connections of Ouija Board, notably the Arc, where she was the best horse at the weights, and as I've mentioned above the Champion.

Its just a great shame that the two look destined not to meet in Hong Kong, as I'd be buying my plane tickets right now to get over there and watch!


For the sake of interest Pride is rated 128, Ouija Board 125.

I understand your point and its fair enough. However, for me, when evaluating either a world champ or what's going to win the seller at Market Rasen, you can only go on form. The form of the horse largely; what it has achieved. You can't judge it on connections' intentions, I hate the phrase, but you can't blame the horse if it isn't as aggressively campaigned as another. Their respective ability remains exactly the same, and you can only jusge a horse's ability by what it does on the racecourse, any racecourse.
For example, and sorry for just using one, but few would argue that Ghostzapper was the best in the world in 2004. But you can't take that away from him because he didn't leave North America.

Either way, I respect your opinion!

intercontinental deserved her win last year -- crafty ride, stole away with it -- fair enough.

but do you really think she would have held ouija board off for another eighth of a mile had the BC been anywhere but Belmont Park?

Ouija Board would have been best that day too if the race were at 1 3/8 miles. Could have made a huge difference.

Lord Derby is a cool name. Could be the name of a rapper.

I am thinking Lord Terror of Tampa Bay....

yeah....I like the sound of that:D

Lord Lezcano... haha. :D

LOL...I think I have hit the point of delusion....if i wasn't already there.:o

from what I understand,
the race is supposed to be run at 10f like it was at Belmont.
thats what they ran it at when Starine won at Arlington in 2002 and when Islington won at Santa Anita in 2003.
its only run at 11f when tracks like Lone Star and CD are the host tracks and the configuration does not allow for a 10f turf race.

I dont believe distance had anything to do with IC's win in 2005.
like Kasept and everyone points out, PACE was the main reason for IC's dominance over that field.
but that does not change my point.
IC still beat her.
HC won the BCT in 2002 with a slow pace to run at.
it can be done.
OB did not do it in 2005.

Im not hating on her, Im just saying she could be beaten.
so with that in mind, i hope ppl dont dismiss the great year that WAW had while getting beat one time on the turf.
b/c as The Board showed us in 2005, a turf mare can be great and still lose the BCFMT in the same year.



Repent

Thing is, Ouija Board had plenty of excuses and still ran a closing second in '05. Wait a While had absolutely no excuse and ran a tiring fourth..

excuses?
she is a closer who lost to a horse who stole the race on the front end.
happens every day(I know you know this ateam).

call it an excuse if you want.



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Not just that.

She broke from an impossible post, had an abbreviated campaign full of setbacks, and was racing at a distance not ideal for her.

What possible excuse did Wait a While have except that she wasn't good enough?

a distance not ideal for her?
well, we dont card BC races to suit the strengths of individual horses.
if that were the case, then you can use the 11f running of this race as an excuse for WAW(it would be totally bogus, but its the same argument).

besides, The Board ran just fine at 10f on numerous occassions.
I dont buy the post position thing.
maybe if its a 8f turf race at Belmont where they basically start the race on a turn I would see your point.
but we are talking a 10f race on the inner turf course.


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Anything outside the 8-hole on the inner turf at BEL is usually death. I don't see how you can possibly say drawing 13 isn't a substantial disadvantage. And the difference is we know Ouija Board is better the further they go. Did we know that about Wait a While? So that's her excuse, now? That she tops out at ten furlongs? I think she just ran into much better horses.

No knock on Wait A While but she waded into the deep end of the pool last week and discovered that she is not quite ready for that level. Anyone that is looking for some kind of excuse other than that is fooling themselves.

Ill disagree and bet her again in just about any circumstance in the future.
just me though.

and Ateam,
I rewatched the 2005 BCFMT.
dont see how The Board breaking from, say the 7 hole, gets her to IC.


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