The blocking back
 

If this has already been discussed here, I apologize. Did anyone else have a problem with Geroux on the other Baffert in the Belmont? He basically ensured a slower pace while impacting horses such as tenfold and Bravazo and it appeared to be intentional.

In my opinion, it was shady at best especially when you consider the magnitude of the event. If the horse is good enough, why the tricks?

Are you serious? Are you asserting there was a foul of some kind? If not, it is just racing.

Not a foul per se. It was obvious the 5 had a mission. It was just bush league in my opinion. If justify is best, why would he need such tactics?

Eric Wing Tweeted about this blog post from 2 years ago.


https://blog.horsetourneys.com/2016/...n-stakes-race/

If Justify's not best, they'll be able to catch him. Oh wait, they couldn't. Noble Indy couldn't go fast enough to get up there. He was welcome to try to get a better position and didn't manage it. Restoring Hope kept them from pulling a Smarty and the fair race was run.

Ask tenfold or Bravazo if the race was fair.

I think Bravazo got forced to the rail where he didnt want to be, otherwise I think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion. That race was over when Justify broke alert and Javy didnt send with Noble. He was already a length back of Justify by the time Geroux did whatever the hell that was. If Flo wanted to run more significant interference, he couldve floated a few wide on the turn. I think this is a molehill being turned into a mountain. Gronk, Vino and even Bravazo all took a shot at him and just couldn't get him.

What I don’t get is this: It’s not like it was a huge surprise that Restoring Hope might do something like this. So none of the other horses/jockeys anticipated it and adjusted their strategy accordingly? Bravazo had enough position to run a suicide mission and press the pace but why would he do that? That style has failed him in all the big races.

The way I see it, the only horses RH really impacted were Tenfold (who got pinched between RH and NI at the beginning of the race) and Noble Indy, who may have only been in the race to try to press the pace. To the extent he impeded Tenfold, I’ve already mentioned in the “Tenfold” thread that it is extremely unlikely it made a difference for Justify. To the extent he impeded Noble Indy, it seems like a fair counterstrategy.

Javy said after the race that he didnt have enough to press the pace.
The bottom line is, there wasnt one horse that was fast enough the 3 TC races to stay with Justify and or soften him up for the rest of the field. The one horse that did stay with him was Promises Fulfilled who came back to run huge in the Woody Stephens. At the end of the day, the best horse won the TC.

I’d throw some praise to Good Magic as well. Heck of a horse and softened Justify up in the Preakness but still not enough.

I think Good Magic is a very nice horse, but I really think Smith knew that Good Magic was the only horse that could beat him in Maryland and once he put him away he took his foot of the gas and tried to save something for the Belmont. He was under wraps late in the race.

Given what has transpired since, you’re probably right. Bravazo had to put up a very strong finish just to lose by a half length. In retrospect, the win was more comfortable than the charts may seem to indicate.

Maybe some people should go to the petting zoo instead of the racetrack.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...610-story.html

Here is an article with comments from, John Velasquez, Mike Repole and Wayne Lucas, that seems to confirm that the blocking occurred, but Lucas said he didn't think it changed the outcome of the race.

I just think its funny that Repole who wanted Javy to try to duel Justify into the ground to set it up for Vino, is complaining about another trainers possible tactics in the race.

While none of us can say whether it changed the outcome of the race, it was pretty clear to me is that Geroux was not riding to win the race. I found the comments from Restoring Hope's owner, Gary West, that he has no idea what Geroux was thinking or what his strategy was and that the ride for the first 1/8 of a mile resembled more of a quarter horse race than the 1 1/2 mile Belmont very interesting.

Having said that, trainers and owners have been using two horses to help set up another horse for as long as horses have been racing and nothing should take away from the tremendous accomplishment by Justify to be a worthy Triple Crown champion.

Not sure if it would have mattered but Florent def had other intentions than winning the race-watch the NBC broadcast again--after the race Mike Smith was pointing and yelling to Florent, "you're the man!" Why does Mike think Florent is the man after that race?

Speaking of West, I wonder if we will see any Justify-Actress foals. That could be something special.

Ya it was pretty clear Restoring Hope wasn't in it to win it and Im sure owner wasn't thrilled on that ride. That being said this is really overblown with the blocking comments. Bravazo got pined on rail somewhat and tenfold had to go back as hope squeezed him with more speed at the start. Other then that there really wasn't much blocking in my opinion. Vino Russo had every opportunity and just wasn't fast enough. Gronkowski was very good and surprised me a lot. Justify is just faster than the group that ran Saturday. I hope he runs in the Travers and we get a better mix of horses so we can see a great balanced race.

Well, I guess we can all look forward to more great races from the great triple crown champion, Justify and I do not say that with sarcasm. Really, the most shocking thing about the race to me and probably a host of others was Gronkowski. Who knew that horses come over here from Europe and frequently run well on first time Lasix? :rolleyes: Just one of the myriad lessons that horse racing offers that I repeatedly fail to learn.:(

That "you're the man" is delivered at 2:55.37. http://stream.nbcsports.com/horse-racing/belmont-stakes You can in no way tell to whom this was said. Could be at a non-jockey. Stop spreading rumors. I don't think it really makes sense from what seems to be the proximity of the other runners and the time it's taking to turn Justify around with the outrider and come back that Mike would've yelled anything at Florent. If that pink blur was Florent off in the distance, I'm not sure Mike would've expected to be heard.

I don't agree that Florent definitely had other intentions (as in wasn't trying to win). Yes it ran interference for Justify in a way, but I think RH was in the right place for the Belmont if he was gonna be good enough at 12 furlongs. He wasn't, but you gotta try if you're actually trying to win. RH needed to be closer to the pace in the Belmont than the Derby. Gronkowski's race was unusual. A horse hasn't done last to first(-ish, since he didn't win) since 2006. Expecting a come from behind surge or grinding wasn't gonna work. Gary West couldn't have thought RH was gonna win, but if he's gonna insist on trying to, you gotta do what Florent did.

Dalakhani!

How you be?

There were only real race horses in the race - they ran 1-2.
The rest, pathetic bunch of also-rans.

They will win races in the future, when they stop chasing champions.

Well put.

:tro:

When I mentioned the fact that Baffert had 2 runners weeks BEFORE the race it didn't get much of a look.....hmmmm.


#147 Report Post

05-23-2018, 11:36 PM


Justify (Baffert)
Bravazo (Lukas)
Tenfold (Asmussen)
Vino Rosso (Pletcher)
Blended Citizen (O'Neill)
Hofburg (Mott)
Gronkowski (C. Brown)
Free Drop Billy (Romans)
Restoring Hope (Baffert)

Audible (Pletcher)
Bandua (D. Weld)

thats a nice lineup. Can make a case for a few of them.

...and why is he running a horse against himself?

With all due respect RB, I believe your question has been answered several times on various threads....the owners made that decision and from what I have heard, when they day do, those that work for them...do.

True but now people are saying there was some sort of "fix" in because of the 2 runners.

The only attempted "fix" was from Repole and it didn't work out so now he's pissed. Why no criticism of that before the race? He chose two enter them both to help Vino Rosso. The Wests wanted to enter their horse and Baffert doesn't have much of a say so no, that wasn't fishy pre-race. They weren't trying to help Justify, they wanted to win or at least place. Repole wanted to try to wear out the horse going for the TC for his own success. Much worse, but in neither alleged "fix" was it really a fix. In both cases they were race riding even if it was true.

If RH is gonna be up there, even if it isn't about helping Justify, why would he want to let another horse get up and lose position? He's gonna block anybody he can anyway.

And means that means there was?
Who cares what "they" say?

It is not at all unusual for a trainer to have two runners in the same race.
Do "they" understand this idea?

Some people say all races are fixed. Are "they correct?"

I wasn't saying that the Belmont or any other race was "fixed" in any way. I prefer to think that"fixed" races are a rarity and not a habit for a sport that I love. However considering what was on the line I found the other Baffert entry odd.

Maybe I'm wrong? Not crying about it.



Wonder what that conversation was like?


Owner: Hey Bob! I know you are trying to win the triple crown again and become iconic but I want you to train and enter RH. I want you to do everything you can to win with my horse. I want to win the Belmont stakes Bob. Please! It has been a long time passion to win this race Bob. I know you are the best trainer in the sport and I know you can bring RH home to victory!


Bob: OK!


or He could have said...


Owner: Bob, I know RH can win the Belmont stakes. However out of respect and thanks for training my horses so well and the fact that you are trying to achieve something greater, I am not going to put you in the awkward position of having to beat yourself for the Triple Crown. You deserve this Bob! I will cheer you on and hope you win with Justify and we can have a drink when its done.


Bob: Thanks!


That was an option but hey! I guess not.

As I said in the other thread, there has been somewhat of a history of rabbits in big races. So I don't think too much can be said about that.

But there is a difference between a rabbit and a horse who is supposed to in some way impede other horses. If you don't believe me, call the stewards at one of the big tracks and ask them if it is permissible for you to enter a rabbit in a race, along with your other horse. The chances are they will say yes. Call the stewards another time and tell them you are planning on entering a horse in a race that you think has a good chance to win. But you want to also enter another horse whose job it will be to fan the competition wide and maybe even put one of the contenders in a tight spot, if possible (to help your other horse). I guarantee they will tell you that that would be totally illegal and that you could be in big trouble for doing that. If you didn't ask them first but did that and then admitted to it after the race, you would probably be in for a big fine and suspension.

There is no proof that Baffert told Geroux to try to fan some of the competition wide or put someone in tight to help Justify. We have no evidence that any such conversation took place. So I'm not claiming that anyone should be in trouble. There has to be some proof. As of right now, there is no proof. People can only speculate what might have been said. But it certainly looked a little bit fishy, to say the least.