Is American Pharoah Baffert's best horse?
 

Where does he fit in with Real Quiet, Silver Charm, and Point Given?

I'd definitely put him ahead of Real Quiet, for starters.

By far the best . . . you're kidding with this question right. Baffert has all can do to contain himself talking about this horse since his first win. He's a good poker player but every once in awhile he shows his hand a little bit. He not only LOVES training this horse he simply LOVES this horse . . . and who wouldn't.

you are kidding, right ?

Ap, sc, rq, pg

Ic, Ap, Pg, Rq, Sc.

:D

Silver Charm was a champion, he won The Derby and Preakness and then Dubai, just short in the Classic and Belmont. Real Quiet, a nose shy of a Triple Crown, Ok at 4 but we'll never know. Point Given was a beast. I'll never understand what happened Derby Day, but The Preakness, Belmont, and Travers were great. It's still incomplete on American Pharoah, but at this juncture, I think he's not only Bob's best, but definitely in the elite zone. Horses come at him in every race and he just puts it in another gear. Secretariat followed up the Triple Crown with great wins especially in the Marlboro, and Man o War or Lexington (always forget which one). Neither Slew nor Affirmed won in their Triple Crown won what I would term the Grand Slam of it's day, The Jockey Club Gold Cup (at 1 1/2 Miles). So if AP would win the BC Classic, we're in new territory!

it was the man o war.

and one of slew's best races ever was the jockey club. losing a nose after how he ran early...it was amazing to see.

Well, it's strictly a matter of opinion but based on the importance I attach to winning the Triple Crown, I have to place AP at the top of the list.

Slew's Jockey Club was amazing. I said that to a friend when Zenyatta came up short in the Breeders Cup Classic, he said, well she wasn't as good, and I said that made me a fan. It looked like in 1978 Exceller would take off, but Slew wouldn't quit which placed him in my mind as one of the greats.

what did beyer say, something like exceller won but slew was the hero?

it was an amazing race from SS.

“We've had a lot of good horses,” trainer Bob Baffert said. “I’ve never had one that moves like this. Never.”

http://www.si.com/horse-racing/2015/...ustrated-cover

I keep telling you Bob loves this horse and he's not done running and winning yet.

Where would he stand all time if and it's a big IF he were to win the Haskell, The Travers and the BC Classic or even 2 out of the 3. I believe we have not seen his best yet!!!

I love Silver Charm, and I thought PG was just an awesome animal, but this guy has to be the best. I suppose if he never wins again, you could argue those 2, but AP is winning big races by open lengths.

Zensational has to be in the conversation.
"He’s incredible. He’s a beast. He’s one of the three best horses I’ve ever trained,” trainer Bob Baffert said. “He’s one of the few you get in a lifetime. He is as fast, as powerful, and as good-looking as any horse you will ever see. He breezed faster than really good horses run.”

This is why i feel AP is his best. And this mostly comes from a horseman's view. What if find is most amazing about this guy, is that he overcame a 6 month layoff where two months of it was convalescing an injury. Believe me, a normal horse would have never gotten ready for a Triple Crown in the short amount of time he had for preparation. His workout pattern was actually abbreviated from the normal Baffert pattern. In place of his final workouts was actually a race (Rebel) which set him up for his first real test of the year (Arkansas Derby), which ended up as a workout in itself. In reality his first big test of the year was The Derby. And he struggled, we all saw that. It was an effort that actually brought him down to earth to most pundits. Gone was the "super horse" tag many had pinned on him. It was the first time the Baffert team actually had to deal with a tired horse after the race. Most experts were calling for an regression in the Preakness. None doing. He ran everyone off their feet in the quagmire and proceeding to come out of the race stronger. The three weeks between the Preakness and the Belmont we probably witnessed AP in his strongest breeze showings. Here was a horse who was peeking going into the last leg of the Triple Crown. I'm not going to get in a debate about the easy trip he got away with, or the 105 Beyer that he was assigned. What i took out of this final race of the Triple Crown was the power and ease of which he controlled the race from the start. It's not often you watch a Belmont and the winner is still well in hand as he turns into the stretch. AP only was extended for 5/16th of a mile, and was in full stride at the wire and still full of run on the gallop out. I can't wait for the second half of the season for AP..Like all 3yo's, he's going to have to improve his numbers to be competitive in the fall classics. I have faith that he will...

I believe ATR show today brought up the question of other trainers possibly putting in a rabbit in the next races of AP. What do you think,?

I always thought that Baffert undertrained PG for the derby sso he'd be fresherr for the other 2 legs, just athought as i saw him romp in the Belmont that year.I'dd like to ask him that.

I think as the races progress over the summer, there will be no need for a rabbit..There will be other 3yo's that are just progressing now that will be in the Haskell or The Travers that will create another race shape than what we witnessed in AP's last two races. He has proven to be a very relaxed competitor(Arkansas Derby) and is very attuned to what the jockey is asking of him. I've read in a few stories that people were comparing him to Slew. They are two different animals. Slew wanted to attack you and be in control from the start. Such a tenacious fighter he was on the track. AP looks like he is having fun out there and just going through the motions..

I can't remember how PG trained up to the Derby. Pretty sure those were the days before we had "The Works" show and everyone was focusing on that. I do remember the track that day as being extremely fast and Stevens had him chasing the suicide pace while wide throughout. They chose the wrong day to take him out of his preferred running style..

Gary Stevens is what happened to Point Given in the Derby....that's how to rush him up into suicidal fractions there Gary. He probaly felt like punching himself in the face after that ride.

The pace was just way to hot to be anywhere close. That said, Congaree was ahead of PG early and finished better. Just wasn't his day.

I remember reading an interview with Baffert where he said that was indeed his mistake- he trained PG for the Triple Crown, rather than for the Derby.

Just ask The Don to ask Baffert that, he has made it clear that he has the inside track on Baffert's ear. :rolleyes:

Point Given is my favorite horse, and imo was visually the more impressive horse. His Belmont was the best we have seen in in this century, with the time and speed figure to back it up. In the Travers he won easily, but we knew that he had a extra gear or two left in him which we hadn't seen and regrettably we never got to see more

As for what happened in the Derby,with PG. Stevens and Baffert were already thinking TC before winning the Derby. Stevens admitted that the Derby in his mind would be a foregone conclusion, he was looking to break Secretariat's time. Like what was also posted Baffert was training for TC and looked past the Derby

AP is a good horse and also visually impressive, but times and figures assigned have been average times for the races won by horses in years past. Nothing really stands out other than he won the TC. I'm not as confident in AP that he has extra gears left we have not seen. But time will well, hopefully.

Right now for me it is

PG, SC, AP, RQ

The horse didn't have it that day. It is true that it was a suicidal pace. They went the half in :44 4/5. Point Given was laying 6th and he was about 6 lengths behind or so. Was this closer than he should have been? Yes, it was. He should have probably been laying more like 12-14 lengths back. He ended up getting beat by about 13 lengths. Congaree was laying 4th and was much closer to the pace than Point Given. Congaree ended up running 2nd and he beat PG by about 8 lengths.

I don't know how you could possible say PG was best that day. If he ended up losing the race by only 3-4 lengths, then you could make a good argument that he might have been best that day. But when a horse loses by 13 lengths and is losing ground to horses who were in front of him and getting passed by horses that were behind him, I don't know how you can think that the ride cost him the race.

I've asked him on radio. Baffert said he didn't want to make excuses at the time, but Point Given was nursing a hoof and couldn't be leaned on pre-Derby... similar to how he came into Haskell very short, but won anyway. Frankel had the same kind of issue to deal with Empire Maker pre-Derby.

How far he got beat is not relevant. He blew it with that ridiculous middle move into scorching 6 furlongs.

Ok, if you say so. I can guarantee you that Baffert doesn't think that ride cost him the race.

A good example of a horse whose move was totally mistimed was Normandy Invasion in 2013. A move like that can cost a horse 2-3 lengths. It's not going to cost him 12 or 13 lengths. I would say the same for Point Given. If you think that type of ride can cost a horse 13 lengths, then you must have 10,000 horses on your watch list. There are tons of horses who get beat by 15 lengths every day who didn't get perfect rides. That doesn't mean they should have won. I think PG's sore hoof had a lot more to do with his poor performance than the ride. I think that hoof was actually still probably bothering him at least a little bit in the Preakness. He was on his wrong lead all the way down the stretch in the Preakness until about 40 yards from the wire.

Seems that BB thinks AP is best.