A 2nd BC Day?
 

Before the backlash starts... hear me out.

BC Day- as long as it is, I still think is missing 2 key races, and you could make the agrument for a few more. The Fillie and Mare Mile, and the Fillie and Mare Sprint are two that are deserving additions IMO.

So with that being said, why not do something like what Lone Star did a couple of eyars ago- Have a big day the day before the BC. They had a special running of the Lone Star Derby and had a couple of other stakes races that day.

But just put those 2 races on Friday at the host track. ESPN is doing wall 2 wall coverage anyway, so it'll still get TV prominence and a decent handle (just like Oaks day).

You can argue that there would be $$$ issues, and maybe it would open up a can of worms like adding a Dirt Mile or a Turf Sprint. But my suggestions are just adding a female race based off of 2 races that already exist. To give them a better chance to compete. Also- I think the field sizes in the 2 events could be pretty good. Because on the male side, they're the 2 events that from year to year seem to have the most entrants.

Your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Additions? And for a select few of you- I'm eagerly awaiting the spewing of negativity on your ends.

No to F&M Mile...yes to flat dirt mile. No to F&M Sprint...maybe to turf sprint

I think it makes more sense to add the necessary races (Dirt Mile, F&M Sprint, F&M Mile are what I would add) on the same day. The allure of the BC, I think, is that it's the culmination of the entire racing year all on one day.. It's succinct and still important, as opposed to the TC, which takes place over five weeks.

I agree that more races need to be added, but I think making a "BC day B" or something to that end somewhat defeats the purpose of BC day.

Its not negativity Pmayjr, but that kinda cash doesnt come easily. And if they had it to spend, pumping up the purses of the existing races is the way to go.
A dirt mile would weaken both the classic and sprint, thats no good. Turf sprints will never be added. The BREEDERS cup's main purpose was to make stallions. Turf sprint specialists will never be worth 50 cents at stud, so you can forget them adding that on.
I think we have them all covered here. When they added the missing filly and mare turf race they covered it all.
I guess the next thing they mad add, if ever, is the filly and mare sprint. Which I could kinda see a case for, but I'm not dying to see it happen either.
I like things the way they are now. I think all the bases are covered.

Topic has come up repeatedly over the years, and I brought it up on the show with an NTRA-BC guy Derby Week.. Thoro-Graph's Jerry Brown is one proponent I know of for it, and I like the idea a lot. Executionally, "they" say it's a problem for a variety of reasons (TV was the key issue), but that would seem to be less of an issue than it was when NBC had the broadcasts. If you did add a day, the logical races to add are a dirt mile and turf sprint, and possibly a juvenile (turf) mile which would attract lots of Euros.

I find BC day far too intense with the races coming way too fast to adjust to the opportunities.. If you go back a few years the races were spaced better with maybe an additional 7-9 min. between each.. TV of course found that too long a delay, so now they come at you like Jai Alai games..

After the filly/mare turf was added, the rush increased. I am in favor of adding more races, however.:)

i think they could add enough quality racing to make it a two day event. a dirt mile is a great idea, and i'd like to see a filly sprint on dirt. there is talk of expanding eclipse awards, i think they should have showcase events to go with those awards. a mile turf on fillies as well...no doubt you could get enough races. i wouldn't mind seeing another, shorter race for the 2 yo's.

Why not......
 

Make it a BC WEEKEND Saturday and Sunday event! Or add more races to the day, how bout a nice 16 race BC card? They could throw a couple p6's in for good measure, big fields, big pools, more publicity for the sport, more wagering opportunities! WHO'S WITH ME, I SMELL A PETITION DRIVE? LOL

" I'm gonna make him an offer, he can't refuse"

i bet theres a logical reason for the first 2 non bc races on bc day (television is my guess).....but why not scrap those 2 out of place races before the championship races begin.......then you could add an additional 2 championship races instead....what were the first 2 non bc races last year??? i think i remeber the second was a stakes race with scrappy t

BC is already up against College Football. Do you really want to take on the NFL Sunday? Or run races Friday when no one is watching?

Whomever said TV guys were against this hit it on the head. No one wants to counter program the NFL with an unpopular sport. They'll run non-sport programming since that will attract a bigger audience than the miniscule portion of the sports audience that prefers horse racing to NFL football.

This is a niche sport website. Just because the majority of posters here might think this is a good idea doesn't mean any network that tried it won't go broke.

Amen on this. If there was an hour between races I would feel rushed. It's tough to identify true winning oppourtunities on BC day, so you really need to pick your spots carefully ahead of time. I usually focus on 3 or 4 races I think I can make some fair coin and maybe one of the pick 4's where value can be had.

I also played an angle last year in the turf where I boxed the Euros for the super. It paid quite handsomely. So, in addition to fair preparation, a little lady luck is also needed.

I have to agree wither everything.

Chromer hit it on the head with not going up against the NFL on Sunday. It you do a 2nd day- it's gotta be Friday. That's why I borught up "Oaks day"... as in Kentucky Oaks. ESPN covers that with decent ratings and coverage. It wouldn't get the attention and handle, but I think it would be comparable to Kentucky Oaks day.

As for a F&M sprint, and an F&M mile. I think the fields sizes and quality still would be pretty good. As I meantioned in the first post- those are the 2 races from year to year who usually attract the largest fields. I don't think that has too much to do with fillies and mares entering those races either. Because they might get 2 per year in those races?

Since it is a day for the Breeders, and to find out whom should be breeding based off those races- you wanna see who some nice bullet fast mares are who can romp goin 1:08 and change right? A dirt mile would dilute things, a F&M Mile and Sprint I don't think would.

maybe a three race warm up on friday nights...

i really don't see any changes tho.

I think one day is fine seeing that "we" already have to go up against college football.

Get rid of: The 2 Juvy races

The changes: The classic goes 1.5 miles on the dirt (attract Euros) and then a 1 mile on the dirt. If you have a mile on the dirt and a mile and a quarter on the dirt, they run into each other. Also maybe we might get some distance horses here that dont have great speed trying it out.

Also add a 5 f on the turf.

So change the classic a furlong longer, get rid of destructive two year old races. Replace with a mile on the dirt, and a 5 furlong on the grass.

It'll never happen. We must have our investments pay dividends now. Owners cant hold back showing off a two year old. Same old "I got to have it now mommy." Slap that kid upside the head, wait your turn.

dont add anything.

take out the Breeders Cup Juvenile Fillies.
run 1 race for 2YOs and do it at 8f.
no need for these dirt 2YOs horses to go 2 turns yet.

if you do want to add a race,
add a 2Yo turf race at 8f.

that way you still have 2 juvenile races. 2YO fillies can run against males at that age.

if you do add a 8f dirt race for 3YOs and up, then you have to move the BC Distaff to 10f.

you cant have 2 dirt races at that close of a distance for the same horses.


Repent

I agree with the first part, strongly disagree with the second. If we make the Classic a twelve-furlong race, then the Dirt Mile would become the new BCC. We don't train our horses to run 12 furlongs on dirt.. It's hard enough to get them to run 10.

I don't understand the popular demand for a turf sprint.. Who exactly are these superstar turf horses who are being shut out because the Mile is too far???

Necessity (in order) calls for a F/M Sprint (think of how many graded F/M sprint races there are in the U.S.), a dirt mile because of the 'tweeners that American racing breeds, and a F/M Turf Mile. I think a Juvenile turf race would be pointless, as it would be ALL Europeans.

not true.

lots of good 2YO turf runners.
but b/c of the BC structure, most of the 2YO turf stakes occur at Laurel, Calder, or HW after the BC.


and what would be bad about a BC race with half the field being Euros?
its the World Championships and it may give European trainers another reason to bring their OTHER horses over for the BC Mile, Turf, and FM Turf.

regardless,
its not a priority.
what really needs to occur is the elimination of the BC Juvemile Fillies and a cut back in distance to 8f.
if you want to add a race to replace the BCJF, then add an 8f dirt race or a 2YO turf race.
but if you are going to add a dirt Mile, then you have to increase the BC Distaff to 10f.


Repent


Repent

Name me one American juvenile turf horse. If you had to think for more than three seconds, there shouldn't be a juvenile turf race here.

dude,
thats b/c there are NO BC prep races for turf 2YOs.

2Yo's racing calender only exists in the 2nd part of the year.
there are not going to be any notable 2YO turf runners in the US without 2YO stakes races prior to the BC.
at this point in time, there is no real reason to card those types of stakes races.

Im not advocating a 2YO turf race.
im just saying its a more intersting addition than a turf sprint race or some other made up division.

if you are going to create a new division or series of prep races, that would be the category to add.

thats all I am saying.

like I originally typed, dont add any BC race.
take one away.
but we all know thats never going to happen.

Repent

Of the ideas I've heard, these are the ones I like the best:

I'd add an 8f race on dirt but it would be strictly for 3yo's. I'd add a 12f dirt race but it would be strictly for 4yo's and up. In addition to the new 12f race, I'd add a series of races through the year, maybe 6-8 of them at $500k each at 12f for 4yo's and older. Perhaps if there is a series of races with a bonus attatched to it, it would keep a few more of these horses around a little longer and also would create a market that would encourage breeders to breed for those kinds of races. As it stands now, u can't blame them for not wanting to breed any 12f type horses.

I'd also get rid of the Juvenile Fillies and make just one 2yo race and have that race be at 6f. I don't think 2yo's need to run beyond 6f. There would be no 2yo races at all beyond 6f. Then in January/Feb, the furthest they could go would be 7f....March/April, the furthest they could go would be 8f.....the Derby would be 9f, the Preakness 9.5f, and the Belmont 10f. The purpose of the Belmont used to be to determine which of the 3yo's could handle 12f and be able to compete with the older horses in the fall in the big races, several of which were 12f or longer. But now, since there are no 12f dirt races, the Belmont has been turned into one of America's most irrelevant races, save for when there is a TC on the line. That's sad.

I would not create a sprint race for females. The females have a very good record in the open Sprint as it is. Same for the Mile. If they were being outclassed in those races, maybe so. But Royal Heroine, Pine Tree Lane, Very Subtle, Miesque, Sonic Lady, Safely Kept, Meafara, Ski Paradise, Soviet Problem, Desert Stormer, Ridgewood Pearl, Sayyedati, Tuzla, Honest Lady, Xtra Heat, Six Perfections, and Gorella all say that the girls can run with the boys in those races. All of those females have either won or been in the money in the Sprint or Mile. If u take it a step further, u can add the names of All Along, Pebbles, Estrapade, Indian Skimmer, Sierra Roberta, Miss Alleged, Hatoof, and Borgia and make the case that there was really no need for the F/M Turf.

Fernando Po

was just looking at the Churchill Condition Book(avalibale on line) At Fridays Card not to Bad there are 2 stakes carded that Day.

THe Cherekee Run For 3 and up Going 5F on the Turf for 250k and
The River City(Grade 3) For 3 And up 1/1/8th on the turf.

That's the thing. I'm convinced you could get similar to a Kentucky Oaks day type handle, with ESPN coverage if you put a couple of races on Friday. IThe handle and the ratings wouldn't be even close to Saturday, but that's not the worst thing either...

I'm sure a lot will hate this idea but I think the best idea is to expand to 12 races and run them at two different tracks with staggered starts like the Sunshine Millions. You would then get 12 races on TV in 3 hours which is something that would be more marketable to the mainstream, especially those who get bored and change the channel after they watch a race and realize it is another half hour until the next one. You would never have to worry about a race like the FM Turf being at 11 furlongs because you would make sure one of the two tracks is capable of running a 10 furlong turf race. It would make inclusion of the dirt mile possible since at least one of the two tracks would be able to run a mile dirt race.

I'd go something along these lines:
Track 1
BC Juvenile (1 mile)
BC Turf Sprint
BC Sprint
BC Juvenile Turf (8.5 furlongs)
BC Distaff
BC Turf

Track 2
BC Juvenile Fillies (1 mile)
BC FM Sprint
BC FM Turf
BC Dirt Mile
BC Turf Mile
BC Classic

I think they should just eliminate it all-together and then perhaps races during the year could go back to having some meaning. But, then again, racing really is only about one race, a career record is obviously meaningless.

If they eliminated it do you really think we'd ever see Lava Man and Bernardini face off, or Henny Hughes and Bordonaro, or Aragorn and Gorella, or countless other matchups of east coast and west coast horses? Virtually no one would take the risk of shipping a top horse to the other coast without the reward of the Breeders' Cup. As many faults as the emphasis on the BC has, I think we are better off with it than without it.

Add one race
 

Turf Sprint (because of the increased popularity of these races)

Nonsense, Sniper. Could I ask how old you are? I only ask that because in the Days before the BC people shipped all year long to face each other in grade one's to settle championships. Lemme tell ya, racng was full of matchups back then, the kind that met 2-3 -4 times a year rather than once. We sure wouldn't have had Alydar-Affirmed if the BC had been in place back then.

Alot less stakes races back then. You could have ran at Charlestown this weekend for 500k, and MOST ARLINGTON horses would beat those rats...There is too much money available to have these matchups now days. I don't fault connections one bit for shopping for races, because the cost to take care of ONE of these animals is astronomical. This sport needs an Alydar-Affirmed because it is dwindling

Scav I don't understand what you are saying at all in regards to Charles Town. Both Laurel and Charles Town hosted lucrative races for MARYLAND AND WEST VIRGINIA BREDS this past weekend. As did calder for FLORIDA BREDS. Belmont hosts the NY bred showcase next weekend.
I assure you that anyone at Arlington who had a WV bred, Md bred, or Fla bred was there with their horse.
These races are restricted to state bred company and illustrating the 500 grand WV bred race as a race that any horse could have run in is false, those days don't draw away from the sport.

Come on now, we both know the game has changed a lot. If you suddenly eliminated the BC the game would not go back to how it was in the 1970's.

GOOD QUESTION!!

why get rid of the juvie filly race?--that is directed at those who suggested it.

You'd be surprised.

While you could have drawn the conclusion that is what I meant, it isnt what I meant. I KNOW that they were conditioned to state bred, but in no way should a WV bred that is a claiming 15k rat should be running for 500k. the point I was trying to make and should have just said it this.

There are too many tracks out there with too much money, if we want this sport to get to where it once was, we need to lower the amount of stakes races around the country. There are too many tracks, that are filtering their money to one specific day, and letting the rest of their days go to crap. EVERY TRACK is guilty of it.

Someone mentioned the idea of a racing league, which would be a great idea, absolutely great idea, but you have too many owners that think they have huge balls and it would never work. Horse Racing COULD get NFL type hoopla and publicity, but it is marketed all wrong and set up all wrong.

There are two things that I wish I could take over and turn into goldmines, NCAA Football and Horse racing. If I could set up a 16 team playoff for the NCAA, it would be bigger then the March Madness, there is just as much passion in college football as in College basketball, it is just set up wrong (look at Florida and Auburn for example)...and if I could create a horse racing league, I could turn it into the NFL as far as attention.

Look at what the NFL has done, MILLIONS of people sit in front of the TV for 7 hours a day on Sundays. With what people's attention span are now days, that is unheard of

excellent idea...this thing has turned into a super bowl type day, which make all races leading up to it meaningless. too much emphasis on one day, one race, too little attention paid to the rest of the year. why give out year awards if they don't care what a horse did all year??
also, i still can't get over them referring to the arc as a prep!! the ARC? relegated to prep status...that's ludicrous!

the breeders would be better off continuing their breeders incentives throughout the year, such as added purses like they have right now, give the races from years beginning to years end some meaning, not just those that occur on one day.

since states have managed to get slots, they have more money to throw at what they want to support--state breds... so i have no problem with them paying money to them, rat or not. however, i think grading of races needs to be far more difficult. too many graded stakes out there. only the very best, most exclusive and meaningful races should be gr 1's.