Maylaysian plane with 295 on board shot down in Ukraine
 

Graphic photos/NSFW

http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/ma...h-295-on-board

The stakes are high...in the most tranquil time in the world's history.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Amazing decision, to fly a commercial jet through the middle of a war zone. Wonder if they buzzed the Gaza Strip in a low level fly-by on their way.

:zz:

Oh, FAA warned all airlines to stay clear:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...ning/12783569/

Maylaysian Airlines not having a good year.

Saw the graphic where last 4 days that flight flew on Southern path but severe T-Storms today forced it to route North.....Captain Obvious, but should have routed even more North...someone paid for saving jet fuel with a lot of lives

23 Americans on board. 9 Brits. 71 Dutch.

sad deal..rip

and now i just saw that the isreali military is planning a move on gaza.
what a mess.

Press conference @ AMS now: 283 pax and 15 crew.
27 pax nationality unknown
154 Dutch
27 Malaysian
22 Australian
6 British
4 German
4 Belgian
1 Canadian

23 Americans on a commercial jet shot down? Do we go to war now?

We'll see... FOX and their lies are reporting 20 plus Americans on board.

No worries the President is fundraising and he knows there are no Americans

I sure hope he can get 18 holes in tomorrow.....

So Hawks are you still disappointed that we didnt level the Kremlin yesterday?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...h-mh17-3876806

Fox and Friends are on Level 5 Chickenhawk Alert.

Gaza getting ugly.

Bok

Well there were 128 Americans on the Lusitania when we went to war in 1917. Of course World War I was already underway for 3 years in Europe.

There is a threshold where that happens but not sure 23 is it.

Horrible situation - I am praying for the families of all the victims.

we didn't enter ww1 because of the lusitania, which went down in 1915.

look up 'zimmerman note'. that's why we entered the war.

i did see where putin blamed ukraine for it having occurred.

This tragedy would not have happened if there were peace on this land, if the military actions had not been renewed in southeast Ukraine. And, certainly, the state over whose territory this occurred bears responsibility for this awful tragedy."

Really? The "state over whose territory this occurred" is at war to save their sovereignty.

I would say that the Malaysian Airline pilot/co pilot/navigator who recklessly endangered these people by purposely flying through, what is tantamount to a frigging missile range - against the advice of multiple international agencies to avoid the area - bears 100% of the responsibility.

This was completely avoidable.

So are you suggesting we jump into another unfunded war before all the facts are known? Would a horrible accident where civilians are killed constitute grounds for going to war? Could it be that you and your ilk are simply using this tragedy to disparage the actions of your rival party whatever those actions are without any regard to the costs of those actions to the country both human and financial? I find this absolutely despicable. While you're at it maybe you should "pray" for a soul for you and those willing to sacrifice our youth based on unconfirmed information from the front lines blaming the enemy for purposely and knowingly shooting down a civilian aircraft.

PS
Good luck at Saratoga today

What are the odds of this?

Woman loses relatives from both Malaysia crashes.

http://news.msn.com/world/woman-lose...-air-disasters

:tro::tro:

I agree, it was absolutely unconscionable that they flew that way.

I recommend no one fly on that airline, it's crazy.

And so is putin

Um - no - not suggesting that at all. I was simply stating that there is precedent for casualties in an attack, prior to which were not part of the hostilities, leading eventually to involvement in a war. I had remembered that history teachers cited "unrestricted submarine warfare" as the cause of our involvment - and the Lusitania sinking the primary event of that rationale.

Having said that, Danzig's post about the Zimmerman telegram makes a much more concrete case, and the Lusitania sinking would be of lesser importance. Apparently my high school history teacher generalized a bit too much.

Independent of all this theory, I would say the opposite - we ought to steer clear of a confrontation with the Russians if we can avoid it.

PS. Good luck to you as well in Saratoga. And everyone else. Wishing our guys many big ticket winners.

yeah, it's a common myth, that we entered due to that boat sinking. some people started calling for us to enter due to the boat being torpedoed, but it wasn't enough to warrant entering the war.
in '17, germany felt they were on the cusp of winning, with good reason. they thought a few more months of very tough action on their part would end it.
so, after several times of them increasing strikes on shipping, only to have us make them stop, the ramped it up again. they figured by the time we got word that shipping was once again an issue, and if we tried to do anything, it would be too late.
but then the zimmerman note came to light. we'd been having issues with mexico (where pershing and patton had been, taking on pancho villa) already.
mexico would never have done what germany wanted, but it was one too many things germany had done.
we went in, turned the tide, and that was that.

i sometimes wonder, tho....what if we'd not gotten involved then? the changes to history would have been astonishing.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te..._the_mh17.html

an IP address at VGTRK, the state-run TV and radio network, edited the Russian-language Wikipedia page about aviation accidents to say that Malaysia Air Flight MH17 “was shot down by Ukrainian soldiers.”

meh.

Of course we get the facts first, but if 23 Americans died, then yes retaliation is in order.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...r_he_says.html


just saw this....unbelievable.

"Rebel Leader Suggests Some MH17 Victims Were Killed Before Plane Took Off"

Have you read anything? 23 Americans didn't die...Does't make it any the less horrific, but facts are facts

With the job Obama has done this past week, failing to get Iran to agree to anything after giving them one extension after another, sanctions against Russia that are so extreme and debilitating, they are shooting planes down, illegals flooding across the 'open' border for some of our taxpayer paid government cheese to the tune of almost $4 billion, advising Israel to cease fire on those trying to annihilate the entire country and all the fundraising he has done, he deserves a weekend vacation.

Enjoy Mr. President and you've done so much maybe consider taking an extended sabbatical?

Brilliant Steve...thank goodness he's in office.

You coming down today?

You really want him in a public place after that ****ing Goldilocks politics post? Good luck today.

"Can you believe they moved the red tips back!!?? Oh - and a plane got shot down in the middle of a war zone...better make some political hay while it's fresh"

~ Obama at Congressional CC immediately after his 40 second response to the downing of the airline.