Rainbow 6
 

Tough beat to whomever had the 12 and got taken down by an unjust DQ.
At least he has a story to tell at partys

Tough beat? That was a total scam...criminal...i mean seriously this sport is a joke at times

Horse came out 3 paths and stopped the 13 who was going by. I've seen worse left up and lesser taken down.

That was the textbook definition of herding. There is no doubt the 13 would have gone by if the 12 didn't come out on him.

I have seen many mind boggling calls by stewards. This was not one of them.

Worse has not only stayed up recently at Gulfstream, there wasn't even an inquiry. People want consistency, but there is none.

I agree with you a 100% on that. I constantly complain about the stewards ignoring herding and often doing so without even an inquiry.

However, for someone to call it a scam, criminal and indict the sport is absurd to me. From a purely objective standpoint as to whether the DQ was justified, it seemed clear to me that it was.

Having said that, I want the same consistency from the stewards with regard to penalizing riders for herding as well. I am tired of seeing riders take tiring horses out to herd to try to prevent a horse from going by them and getting away with it.

I agree, though I don't think it was a clear DQ. The 13 caused some of the trouble too.

This is what inconsistency does though, leads people to not trust that decisions are made for "pure" reasons. Based on recent history, that should not have been a DQ. So when it benefits the track, it is always going to look REALLY bad.

I don't think there was anything nefarious underfoot, for the record, but I understand why people do.

I didn't have a dog in the fight, but don't think there should have been a DQ.

Bad day for the single ticket holder, good day for the track.

Oddly, the eventual winner, who went off at 39-1 paid $9k(for .50) less than the 15-1 horse who was dq'd would have paid in the P5.

This leaves me confused as to where you believe the conspiracy lies. Is it the track to keep the rainbow six pool going?

Is it a bettor who had pounded the 13 in the pk5? Several bettors who conspired together?

A combination of all these mysterious people?

Lee Harvey Oswald?

Sorry you got so confused. I think you are the one with all the conspiracy theories. I stated a few facts.

If you didn't imply a conspiracy on the call, how were those "facts" relevant to your conclusion on whether the call was correct?

The "facts" are not relevant to my conclusion on whether I though the call was good...your honor.

How is the Pick 5 that paid less is good for the track? The takeout is fixed regardless who wins.

However, having the Rainbow 6 carryover at 1.3 million is a good promotion for the track and was possibly the incentive for the DQ.

Again, I didn't say the P5 that paid less is good for the track. I said it was a bad day for the single ticket holder in the P6 and that was good for the track. I guess that last sentence could have been clearer, referring to the P5 instead of the P6.

It is also great for the bettors, except the one bettor who had the lone ticket.

Call it being politically correct. ;)

Unfortunately nothing is cut and dry when it comes to the stewards but how can anyone here say that it was the worst call ever after watching the head on? Come on people that horse needed to come down! Whether one person stands to cash big should have no bearing on it.

"Unjust"? May be termed a close call, controversial decision, whatever else, but it sure wasn't unjust. As Welsch said at the time, felt 50-50 and could be understood either way. Personally, I turned to a guy next to me while they were still 50 yards out and said the leader was coming down. I usually need the head on to see what happens in those cases, but could tell here Saez had carried Lopez out at least 3 paths. As CJ said, you hope for consistency in what they look at and how they adjudicate and the GP stewards have actually had a better winter than usual. Certainly feel awful for the ticket holder who has to absorb this kind of outcome, but the game has vagaries that test you constantly.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart...22214USA12.pdf

According to the chartcaller this was the right call

If you bet the horse who finished 2nd and the chart reads "bothered rival stretch" for the winner and you lose by a neck and dont come down?

The conspiracy theory is ridiculous.

Couldn't find the head-on replay but this Trakus Aerial view is a good one if you haven't seen it, you can FF it.

http://tmedia.trakus.com/dsi/dsivide....wmv?WMCache=1

If its 50-50 and could be understood either way then why the take down? A disqualification should be based on indisputable evidence that Saez caused Lopez a placing. You can agree that worse infractions haven't been taken down in the past.

I tried to watch the head-on replay again on Twinspires but interestingly enough that's the only race where the head-on replay isn't available.

http://tnetwork.trakus.com/tnet/t_Gu...TBRED&Venue=20

No head-on available here either, but from watching the normal view and the sky view, I think that DQ was iffy at best. The #12 did come out on the #13 slightly (I'd say a "minor herd-job" lol), but in my opinion not enough to impede him from going by if he had the horse. The #13 then tried to rally back in after, but wasn't really gaining and couldn't keep himself straight either. Seriously the #12 didn't block the train from passing. He (very) slightly slowed down the senior citizen from crossing the street. I disagree with it.

But on a side note- that turf course looked like it was a 2nd dirt course. Looked like what you guys were complaining about during last meet at Saratoga. They either need rain or need to water that course more.

We need rain for sure. May be some later in the week. It has been quite warm.

Whoa. I think that was actually a worse beat than yesterday's for whoever had the 3.

The fix must have been in Joey. Zayas must have been instructed by track personal to let the 11 get up in the final yards.

:tro:

It will be funny/sad to know if it was the same guy that was alive in both days.

If he was he probably won't be "alive" tomorrow.

yesterday the DQ of the 4 horse in the 10th was every bit as Bad as the 12 horse being taken down Saturday.

BEYER: At Gulfstream, a most costly DQ: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...9c0_story.html

Typically succinct Beyer view..

The most important line in there by Beyer is the inconsistency in calls. That breeds the unfortunate conspiracy theories.

i agree with beyer, the dq was warranted. the dq'd horse bothered the other twice, and both times the horse rallied, and fell short only a neck.
of course the money involved made people think it was something nefarious, but it wasn't....

dq'ing for herding........now thats funny.

That NEVER happens, it should, but it doesnt.

I agree about the conspiracy theory being ridiculous, but so is citing the chart caller as evidence.

Really? The official transcript of the race is a ridiculous reference point?

So an impartial view of the race by a professional with years of experience, a good vantage point, and access to various camera angles of the race isn't a valid source in your eyes?

Please explain how the chart callers interpretation has no validity since it is his job to describe the race for the official record?

If there is a hearing about this incident it is a sure bet that the chart will be referred to as "evidence".

That would all be well and good if it were realistic, but I've seen too many situations where the chart caller goes out of the way to agree with the stewards no matter how questionable (or even bad) the call.

Are you really going to pretend all chart callers do a good job? Do they really use all the camera angles available and still get the chart out in 15 minutes?

Chart callers miss a lot. Some six dollar an hour guy is not deciding a 1.6 million prize here. Stewards do. And they haven't read the chart call when they make their decision. Obviously.

How would you possibly know this?

Are you going to pretend that we should just discount the charts on the off chance that caller isnt doing a good job?

They must have missed all those breakdowns that you envisioned.

Good one Chuck...One is too many.

Who said we should discount charts?

I would bet I follow the charts at all tracks a LOT closer than you do. Most do a good job given the time allowed. But if there wasn't a rush to get charts out, they could be much better.

But, this has nothing to do with charts guys commenting on DQ / non DQ situations. Charts are almost always tailored in these situations to follow the opinion of the stewards. This wasn't always the case, but in the last few years, it has become the norm.