Weekend Stakes Beyers
 

AQU Long Island H (G3): Inimitable Romanee 88 (Maria's Mon) H. Motion/C. DeCarlo
AQU Summer Secretary S: Watsdachances-IRE 85 (Diamond Green-FR) C. Brown/J. Castellano
AQU Three Coins Up S: Kharafa 95 (Kitalpha) T. Hills/J. Castellano

GP Millions Distaff Preview S: My Pal Chrisy 90 (Alex's Pal) M. Wolfson/J. Gonzales
GP Millions Classic Preview S: Mordi's Miracle 104 (Lawyer Ron) T. Pletcher/E. Prado
GP Juvenile Sprint S: Bolita Boyz 74 (Act of Duty) W. White/P. Lopez
GP Juvenile Filly Sprint S: Puddifoot 82 (Red Giant) E. Plesa/P. Lopez
GP Millions F&M Turf Preview S: Parranda 87 (English Channel) R. Garcia/J. Lezcano
GP Millions Turf Preview S: Bad Debt 98 (Grand Reward) M. Trombetta/J. Rosario
GP Juvenile Filly Turf S: Courtesan 74 (Street Sense) C. Clement/J. Bravo
GP Juvenile Turf S: Notyouraveragejoe 77 (Discreet Cat) S. DiMauro/P. Lopez

WO Frost King S: Flashy Margaritta 79 (Bold n' Flashy) R. Biamonte/P. Husbands

CD Cardinal H (G3): Abaco 92 (Giant's Causeway) C. McGaughey/R. Napravnik

BHP Hollywood Prevue S (G3): Shared Belief -- (Candy Ride-ARG) J. Hollendorfer/C. Nakatani
BHP Moccasin S: Bajan 71 (Speightstown) S. Callaghan/V. Espinoza

LRL Safely Kept S: Lady Sabelia 86 (Majestic Warrior) R. Graham/H. Karamanos
LRL Japan Racing Association S: Slip and Drive 86 (Artie Schiller) M. Robertson/C. Marquez
LRL City of Laurel S: Res Judicata 93 (Smarty Jones) J. Servis/K. Carmouche
LRL Geisha S: Access to Charlie 70 (Indian Charlie) L. Murray/J. Pimentel

RP Clever Trevor S: Smack Smack 80 (Closing Argument) D. Von Hemel/J. Barton

HAW Showtime Deb S: Sasy Ms Elizabeth 78 (Giacomo) L. Hellman/E. Cosme
HAW Sun Power S: Rambling Richie 80 (Lifestyle) L. Rivelli/E. Baird

85 for debuting Coup de Grace (C. Brown/R. Porter)

Sparkling debut

BHP Hollywood Prevue S (G3): Shared Belief 99 (Candy Ride-ARG) J. Hollendorfer/C. Nakatani

AQU Three Coins Up S: Kharafa 95 (Kitalpha) T. Hills/J. Castellano

RP Clever Trevor S: Smack Smack 80 (Closing Argument) D. Von Hemel/J. Barton

Anyone got a fig on the Golden Nugget S. winner?

GG Golden Nugget S: Exit Stage Left 71 (Noonmark) J. Hollendorfer/R. Baze

Noonmark's first stakes winner by the way...

Interesting pedigree on Shared Belief. There is some good California blood in there, including the forgotten and unappreciated sire, Pirates Bounty.

This horse is quite interesting.

It's surprising that a horse this overwhelming in his performances would be:

1. Gelded
2. Debuted in Northern California
3. Sold after his debut (no idea for how much).

He wasn't even favored in his debut either!

I would love to find out more about what's likely wrong with this horse.

Reaching for Hollendorfer today and will get answers..

Loved the offspring of Pirates Bounty................here's a nice article after he passed away.............

http://archive.ctba.com/06magazine/o...mPirteBnty.pdf

Thank God for geldings or they would all be Verrazanos and gone.

A completely mistimed squawk coming on the heels of a Breeders' Cup that featured 5yo's Mucho Macho Man, Fort Larned, Justin Phillip, Point of Entry & Pants On Fire, 7yo's Flat Out & Jeranimo... Not to mention 5yo mares Royal Delta, Authenticity, Groupie Doll, Tiz Flirtacious, Marketintg Mix, Laughing & Mizdirection.

Oh stop Steve. Females can't be gelded, do you need a biology lesson?

Do you think the best horse in training Wise Dan would be racing if he had balls?

Instead of acknowledging that it seems there is a growing trend to keep horses around and expanding on the discuss. You elect to go with the inane.

you could have said the influx in additional older horses running is a direct result of the poor stallion market in 08-12 and the determination of owners that racing is more advantageous then crappy stallion deals...

MMM is 5, not 8. He also was still racing in part b/c he hadn't accomplished enough to get a better stallion deal. The idea that things have reversed in the last few years is inane. A slow trickle better....And the idea that Mizdirection's 2 start year should be embraced as a horse running when older is utterly ridiculous as well.

*yawn* A classic evasion of your completely wrong-headed original post...

Stallion-eligible colts/horses haven't been rushed off the last couple of years and we've have had a particularly nice group of older horses as a result. That's a inarguable fact. The mares were thrown in as additional evidence of owner/breeders providing extra seasons of pleasure for those that follow them.

In most cases, Wise Dan and most other top-performing geldings wouldn't be top performers had they not been gelded.

A bit evasive on Wise Dan. Counter factual isn't an answer. We both know he would've been retired had he not been gelded....I'm shocked my comment has elicited that much debate. Saying Thank God for geldings is not exactly that big a deal but it's winter and I get it. Slow times.

So obstinate and obtuse... Wise Dan almost certainly isn't the horse he is if he remains whole.. You can't even accept that fact? If they won't train and are studish and unfocused and constantly doing things to hurt themselves, they can't turn into the kind of horse he is. That's why they get gelded.

You left out Obfuscation...

I accept that. He would be pining the bottom level claimers at Parx with balls. Got it.:wf Moving on.

All this is true. But it's also true what Randall was trying to get at. A non-gelded horse as good as Wise Dan most likely would have been off to the breeding shed after last year's BC.

--Dunbar

Thanks!

This is a really intriguing 2yo.

Thanks too.

I loved betting Pirates Bounty FTSs.

Too bad he never got any really high quality mares bred to him.

Yep those son's of Wiseman's Ferry are all the rage... In Pa. they call him AP Indy Lite

What would Wise Dan, all other things being equal, stand for if he was not gelded?

15k?

25K?

50 even?

No such thing as a 6 or 7 year old that goes to stud at anything above 10k...Why? because nobody could risk a DIRT horse devaluing himself by continuing to race as a 6/7 years old. Point of Entry only ran this year because he was grass meant, in very sporting wealthy hands, and while he and Gio Pionti might become ok dirt producers its unlikely either would have been campaigned at 5 if they were dirt types. For all I know they can because Tapit and War Front(who thought those two would be special)

Who the heck is paying 50k for a unproven out of the box Wiseman's Ferry that was a 8f grass horse? You think Wise Dan would be better received then a Tiznow? That is the only sort of comparable stud I could relate a whole Wise Dan too and that comparison is a huge theoretical stretch.

by wiseman's ferry? he'd be lucky to get 10k. he'd also be lucky to stand in ky. i think for comparison, you could look at einstein. 7500, and a winner on all three surfaces.

Triple Crown- they are all racing soooo long.

Orb- Retired, all of 2 starts after the Triple Crown series, supposedly healthy so why retire?
Oxbow- Injured, though could've come back given enough time, so why retire?
Palice Malice- Will be back, yay, for a 4 yr old season where he surely runs holes in the wind at FG and GP and Xs at the Breeders Cup like every other Pletcher horse that can't get their fix.

If all goes well we can look forward to Golden Soul hitting the board in a NX3 race at some point in 2014. Fingers crossed. I'll keep rooting for my happy geldings long into the future.

Golden Soul in an n3X? How bout getting to an n2x? Isn't he 1 for something?

Re Shared Belief - the only thing is the pace of that race was very slow especially for the final time. The 7f races at Hollywood that are run in 122.5 or whatever usually have paces in the low-to-mid 45s so he was aided by that but even if he ran a faster half and finished in 123 and got a 92 or 94 Beyer, that's still a big performance.

I was a lot more impressed with they Kobe Byrant horse for the very reasons you stated.

It could be a interesting Cash Call Futurity this year because the 2YO championship in not exactly settled.

Anything?

Yes.. Dorf was on yesterday: http://www.thoroughbredracingradione...y=13&Itemid=35

Thanks.

Listening to Dorf speak is kind of funny.

Conservative in what he says, and sounds like he's straight out of the 1950s.

As for the horse, I'm guessing they really didn't think too much of him until he ran.

I think the point of the sale was Wygod doesnt race geldings. Not if they liked the horse

well, if they don't want to race geldings, why would they geld a horse they own? that seems....odd.

Often the farm calls and tells you that a colt is unmanageable. They are jumping fences to get at fillies.. becoming dangerous to handle.. etc.. Leaves no choice.

Yes, but how often do horses that are thought to be extremely talented and have very nice pedigrees actually get gelded?

probably more than you'd think. they can't live up to their talent if they won't keep their mind on their work.
would kelso and forgo have been kelso and forgo if they weren't gelded? their trainers said probably not.

yeah, i get why it's done.
i guess i just don't understand why they'd have an issue racing a gelding. at least they get more of a chance to show what they can do.

Really? I almost never ever see that.

Remember, not only does the horse have to be well pedigreed, but also he has to be highly thought of.

I can't remember the last top class well bred gelding, other than maybe a horse like commentator, who was sired by an unknown sire (at the time, DH was not highly thought of).

i think that these days people hesitate to geld, and they are doing wrong, because everyone thinks they have the next seattle slew. many intact horses won't reach their potential because they won't put their mind to racing--and why would you want to breed untractable horses?
but i've seen well bred geldings in racing forms, and we've seen horses tail off and they geld to see if it will fix them.