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-   -   What Obama meant to say (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52267)

joeydb 10-31-2013 08:03 PM
What Obama meant to say
 
When President Obama said

"If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan, period.",

what he really meant to say was:

"If you like your health plan (and if we like your health plan, since after all, we know what's good for you), you can keep your health plan. (the choice is ours, not yours), period."

joeydb 11-05-2013 10:38 AM
The pathological lying continues:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/ob...aped-promises/

Excerpt: "“What we said was you could keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law was passed,”

LIAR! You said "If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep your healthcare plan. PERIOD."

Danzig 11-05-2013 11:32 AM
yeah, it was you could keep it if you like it and it meets our new, minimum standards, and they continue to operate in your area.

but, health insurers will be making a lot of money, because people will be having to buy a package with all the stuff they didn't have before, don't need, and won't use. it's akin to your car insurer requiring everyone have 'full coverage' regardless of year of the vehicle, its value, etc.

dellinger63 11-05-2013 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 952971)
it's akin to your car insurer requiring everyone have 'full coverage' regardless of year of the vehicle, its value, etc.
Only if those with newer, more expensive vehicles and good driving records supplement insuring the pieces of shiat and bad drivers (DUI's, accidents etc.) with full coverage in the form of higher premiums.

However when your car can't get into the mechanic/body shop right away because one of the piece of shiats described above is being fixed, it's manageable although far from fair.

When you can't get into the Dr. it's a different story. Not like you can rent a heart stint or hip for a few days.

Rupert Pupkin 11-05-2013 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63 (Post 952974)
Only if those with newer, more expensive vehicles and good driving records supplement insuring the pieces of shiat and bad drivers (DUI's, accidents etc.) with full coverage in the form of higher premiums.

However when your car can't get into the mechanic/body shop right away because one of the piece of shiats described above is being fixed, it's manageable although far from fair.

When you can't get into the Dr. it's a different story. Not like you can rent a heart stint or hip for a few days.
In 10-20 years from now, there is going to be a huge shortage of doctors. There is a large percentage of the population that is moving into their retirement years. Insurance companies have been paying less and less to doctors over the last 15 years. I know doctors who were making $500,000 a year who are now only making $200,000 a year and it's only going to get worse with the ACA. Some people may think that $200,000 a year is a lot of money but it's really not that much if you have a family and live in an expensive area.

If doctors continue to make less and less money, it's going to be hard to convince our brightest young people to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt with student loans to go into a field that doesn't even pay that well.

I know a couple of doctors who retired relatively young (around 70 years old) because they were fed up with not only making less and less money but also fed up with having to deal with the bureaucracy.

I think this is going to be a big problem. Not only do I think we're going to end up with a big shortage of doctors but I think the quality of doctors is going to go way downhill.

Here are a couple of articles about the subject:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/11/...ge-of-doctors/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/02/health...ctor-shortage/

dellinger63 11-05-2013 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin (Post 953018)
In 10-20 years from now, there is going to be a huge shortage of doctors. There is a large percentage of the population that is moving into their retirement years. Insurance companies have been paying less and less to doctors over the last 15 years. I know doctors who were making $500,000 a year who are now only making $200,000 a year and it's only going to get worse with the ACA. Some people may think that $200,000 a year is a lot of money but it's really not that much if you have a family and live in an expensive area.

If doctors continue to make less and less money, it's going to be hard to convince our brightest young people to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt with student loans to go into a field that doesn't even pay that well.
]
We sat next to a whole group of Canadians all BC w/e and I think like them we will have 'sufficient Dr.'s' however they will be from foreign countries.

A good mechanic with a shop can make 200K/year. Less about 7 years of their life in school.

Can't wait till I'm waiting for some overweight, smelly, smoking slob, subsidized by me to finish so I can see a Dr. who I can't understand.

joeydb 11-06-2013 07:05 AM
3 Years of lies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGAdrQ2RpdM

GenuineRisk 11-06-2013 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin (Post 953018)
In 10-20 years from now, there is going to be a huge shortage of doctors. There is a large percentage of the population that is moving into their retirement years. Insurance companies have been paying less and less to doctors over the last 15 years. I know doctors who were making $500,000 a year who are now only making $200,000 a year and it's only going to get worse with the ACA. Some people may think that $200,000 a year is a lot of money but it's really not that much if you have a family and live in an expensive area.

If doctors continue to make less and less money, it's going to be hard to convince our brightest young people to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt with student loans to go into a field that doesn't even pay that well.

I know a couple of doctors who retired relatively young (around 70 years old) because they were fed up with not only making less and less money but also fed up with having to deal with the bureaucracy.

I think this is going to be a big problem. Not only do I think we're going to end up with a big shortage of doctors but I think the quality of doctors is going to go way downhill.

Here are a couple of articles about the subject:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/11/...ge-of-doctors/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/02/health...ctor-shortage/
The shortage of doctors is due to the AMA strictly limiting the number of people who are accepted to medical school. This predates the ACA by many years. Here's an article from 2005 about the upcoming doctor shortage:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...shortage_x.htm

Money quote:
Quote:
The marketplace doesn't determine how many doctors the nation has, as it does for engineers, pilots and other professions. The number of doctors is a political decision, heavily influenced by doctors themselves.
As the article states, the prediction was that baby boomer doctors would be retiring within 10 years. If doctors that are 70 are now retiring, as you say in your post, then that's right on schedule, as they are the last of the pre-baby boomer MDs (Baby Boom years began in 1946)

There are many, many talented men and women who would love to go into the medical profession, but the AMA has huge influence in keeping them out, plus a lot of the cost of training residents is subsidized by the government, which has put caps on how much they pay (yes, those doctors whining about their med school debts are still subsidized by the government).

That said if these docs you know are retiring because they're mad they aren't making as much money as before, good. I'd hate to be a patient to a doctor who is in it only for the money.

Seriously, read the article. It's very informative (even if it is from USA Today) and as I said, predates the ACA by five years. The doctor shortage has NOTHING to do with the ACA, and everything to do with the AMA.

Danzig 11-06-2013 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 953081)
The shortage of doctors is due to the AMA strictly limiting the number of people who are accepted to medical school. This predates the ACA by many years. Here's an article from 2005 about the upcoming doctor shortage:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...shortage_x.htm

Money quote:


As the article states, the prediction was that baby boomer doctors would be retiring within 10 years. If doctors that are 70 are now retiring, as you say in your post, then that's right on schedule, as they are the last of the pre-baby boomer MDs (Baby Boom years began in 1946)

There are many, many talented men and women who would love to go into the medical profession, but the AMA has huge influence in keeping them out, plus a lot of the cost of training residents is subsidized by the government, which has put caps on how much they pay (yes, those doctors whining about their med school debts are still subsidized by the government).

That said if these docs you know are retiring because they're mad they aren't making as much money as before, good. I'd hate to be a patient to a doctor who is in it only for the money.

Seriously, read the article. It's very informative (even if it is from USA Today) and as I said, predates the ACA by five years. The doctor shortage has NOTHING to do with the ACA, and everything to do with the AMA.
:tro:

we are experiencing shortages in many fields, not just medical.

our education system takes a lot of heat, but it's actually doing a good job. however, one of the things that keeps many kids from learning is poverty. it's a circular issue.
kids in lower income households do poorly in school, because of their environment. but to get them out of that environment in future, they need education, so as to break them and future generations out of that cycle.
but, food stamps just got cut. politicians attack welfare programs, won't allow minimum wage increases (well, those who control the purse strings won't allow it), and then we wonder why we don't have enough people for skilled labor positions. so, the working poor continue to get pummelled, and then we complain that we have working poor, and no skilled labor. our conditions and decisions cause the very problems we rail against.

joeydb 11-06-2013 09:38 AM

dellinger63 11-06-2013 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenuineRisk (Post 953081)

Seriously, read the article. It's very informative (even if it is from USA Today) and as I said, predates the ACA by five years. The doctor shortage has NOTHING to do with the ACA, and everything to do with the AMA.
The prospect of 14 million largely subsidized, newly insured should be of no concern.

The AMA may be at fault for the shortage of Dr.'s but the ACA will be responsible for the flood of new patients, clogging up a system running at its max.

joeydb 11-07-2013 08:59 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/07/politi...acare-apology/

"I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me"

Who the f**k is he kidding?

They wouldn't BE in this SITUATION without his stupid law!

Danzig 11-07-2013 09:23 PM
well, at least they know he 'hears' them.

Kirn 11-08-2013 10:59 AM
Hey guys lets use this site for what it was meant for. Teach

hi_im_god 11-08-2013 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirn (Post 953303)
Hey guys lets use this site for what it was meant for. Teach
okay, here's today's lesson:

no one in the history of the politics forum has ever changed anyone else's mind on the merits of any argument.

everyone is locked into their own beliefs. they only pay attention to information (true or false) that reinforces what they already believe. anything else is too uncomfortable and so is dismissed.

we feel better if we believe anyone who disagrees with us is simply stupid. we only post to score points in an imaginary game of one upmanship.

there are a few exceptions. gr and danzig may, in fact, be open to persuasion. i've reported them to the appropriate authorities for this treason and expect to see them banned shortly.

in the meantime, i'm issuing you a provisional blue card based on your use of the word "teach" without any mention of the corrosive effect of public teachers unions. tread carefully in your second post as we'll be watching.

bigrun 11-08-2013 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_god (Post 953322)
okay, here's today's lesson:

no one in the history of the politics forum has ever changed anyone else's mind on the merits of any argument.

everyone is locked into their own beliefs. they only pay attention to information (true or false) that reinforces what they already believe. anything else is too uncomfortable and so is dismissed.

we feel better if we believe anyone who disagrees with us is simply stupid. we only post to score points in an imaginary game of one upmanship.

there are a few exceptions. gr and danzig may, in fact, be open to persuasion. i've reported them to the appropriate authorities for this treason and expect to see them banned shortly.

in the meantime, i'm issuing you a provisional blue card based on your use of the word "teach" without any mention of the corrosive effect of public teachers unions. tread carefully in your second post as we'll be watching.
Ouch, that hurt...

Danzig 11-08-2013 07:08 PM
oh noes, banned!


still better then being banished ala lt. dreyfus. and no emile zola to write of the injustice!

randallscott35 11-12-2013 08:03 PM
And now Hitler just found out about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=USG_gjaEYak

randallscott35 11-13-2013 06:37 AM
I think God is right in most of what he said earlier. I don't think people do it consciously, but what happens is they seek out people who's ideas they agree with. Essentially it's another form of confirmation bias. Unless you are the type of person who goes out of their way to find out the other side, you will always fall down that rat hole.

bigrun 11-13-2013 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 953762)
And now Hitler just found out about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=USG_gjaEYak
:D Hitler's a funny guy..

Danzig 11-13-2013 02:33 PM
those hitler parodies are hilarious.

alysheba4 11-13-2013 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 952971)
yeah, it was you could keep it if you like it and it meets our new, minimum standards, and they continue to operate in your area.

but, health insurers will be making a lot of money, because people will be having to buy a package with all the stuff they didn't have before, don't need, and won't use. it's akin to your car insurer requiring everyone have 'full coverage' regardless of year of the vehicle, its value, etc.
its even worse, who else does the dictator want to bury. auto ins, maybe home owners insurance?

bigrun 11-13-2013 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 953882)
those hitler parodies are hilarious.
Yes they are...dan, be sure to watch mon nites Stewart and Colbert, they both did bits on 60 minutes Benghazi story apology..:D

bigrun 11-13-2013 04:12 PM
Everyone is taking hits on Obamacare...even this poor lady...why didn't they use an American woman by the way.:)

Exclusive: Obamacare's Mystery Woman Says She Fell Victim to Cyberbullies
Nov. 13, 2013.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/exclu...ry?id=20868617

Danzig 11-13-2013 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alysheba4 (Post 953885)
its even worse, who else does the dictator want to bury. auto ins, maybe home owners insurance?
oh, auto and home insurers would LOVE to have this kind of mandate.
can you imagine, having to carry every type of coverage, regardless of year, make and model of vehicle? good lord, the premiums they'd collect...
health insurers won't be buried, they're loving this-who do you think wrote the law?!

Danzig 11-13-2013 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrun (Post 953886)
Yes they are...dan, be sure to watch mon nites Stewart and Colbert, they both did bits on 60 minutes Benghazi story apology..:D
i saw it.

huge ads i'm sure leading up to that episode, and then 60 mins buries the mea culpa at the end of the show.
:rolleyes:

but, it's like espn, and all the other news outlets-what harm do they suffer when wrong? none. none at all.
but i like that lindsey graham is forging ahead anyway...:rolleyes: i can't stand that guy, and LOVE when stewart does his version of graham. hilarious!

bigrun 11-13-2013 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 953906)
i saw it.

huge ads i'm sure leading up to that episode, and then 60 mins buries the mea culpa at the end of the show.
:rolleyes:

but, it's like espn, and all the other news outlets-what harm do they suffer when wrong? none. none at all.
but i like that lindsey graham is forging ahead anyway...:rolleyes: i can't stand that guy, and LOVE when stewart does his version of graham. hilarious!
:D Yeah, does it like a southern belle...My son lives in Columbia and mocks him, calls him a half a sissy.:)

dellinger63 11-14-2013 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrun (Post 953911)
My son lives in Columbia and mocks him, calls him a half a sissy.:)
My Lord, what does he call Barney Frank? ;)

Danzig 11-14-2013 11:42 AM
http://news.msn.com/us/policy-cancel...llow-old-plans

note that the change, the ability to keep these plans, is for one year. and of course it's predicated on insurers opting to keep them in force.
good lord, bc/bs et al probably ripping their hair out over all this.

i predict that the many and sundry rules and issues will be the undoing of the law. they keep chipping out the various stones holding up this false front-it will cause the whole thing to collapse.


first rule-follow k.i.s.s. keep it simple, stupid. they didn't do that.

i'm sure everyone remembers the picture i posted with all the agencies and parties involved.
what a tangled mess. and it's not going to get better. how could it?
the only improvement would be to throw the whole damned, convoluted abortion out, and just do single payer. period.

randallscott35 11-14-2013 12:01 PM
Such a disaster of a president.

GBBob 11-14-2013 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 953984)
Such a disaster of a president.
:rolleyes:

Danzig 11-14-2013 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBBob (Post 953986)
:rolleyes:
:tro:

bigrun 11-14-2013 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellinger63 (Post 953944)
My Lord, what does he call Barney Frank? ;)
A full sissy of course:zz:

dellinger63 11-14-2013 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrun (Post 953993)
A full sissy of course:zz:
OK then :wf

randallscott35 11-14-2013 01:43 PM
Well put.

http://blog.pacificlegal.org/2013/la...ncement-means/

jms62 11-14-2013 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 954005)
When you let the foxes write the rules for guarding the henhouse you shouldn't be surprised when chickens start to go missing. An indictment on the entire process. Dems obviously didn't read the ****ing law that was written by lobbyists for the healthcare industry.

randallscott35 11-14-2013 01:59 PM
Yes, he seems to think the use of executive orders is limitless.

Danzig 11-14-2013 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 954009)
Yes, he seems to think the use of executive orders is limitless.
:rolleyes:

i guess perception is reality. he has a way to go to catch his predecessor. he's about half of bush's total right now.
everyone has a way to go to catch fdr.

Danzig 11-14-2013 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 954007)
When you let the foxes write the rules for guarding the henhouse you shouldn't be surprised when chickens start to go missing. An indictment on the entire process. Dems obviously didn't read the ****ing law that was written by lobbyists for the healthcare industry.
too true.

randallscott35 11-14-2013 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 954020)
:rolleyes:

i guess perception is reality. he has a way to go to catch his predecessor. he's about half of bush's total right now.
everyone has a way to go to catch fdr.
And Bush was a dreadful President as well. Since you don't understand rule of law, I'm not going to waste my time. He thinks he can have his cake and eat it too. Unfortunately, in a three branch government, he can't execute the laws by choosing which aspects of laws to execute....Clinton would do things personally that showed he was a jerk, but he would have never done the things Obama has done.


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