The Best turf/dirt horse in the last 50 years?
 

I was trying to think who was better then John Henry on turf and dirt in my lifetime? His 1980 Oak Tree Invitational was amazing! I went back and watched a lot of his races on YouTube and forgot he traveled all across the country and won.

If you extended the time period even further I'd hope Phar Lap would make your list.

:tro:


you beat me to it. a great dirt horse, but probably the best turf horse in america. sorry, john. he had to come in second to someone.

Exceller had a great career on both dirt and turf...

John Henry was perhaps the most accomplished.

Secretariat would be an obvious candidate. He certainly was a much better dirt horse than John Henry, and he had fantastic turf form.

Spectacular Bid?

He never raced on turf.

All time great, no, but it makes me think of Barbaro for some reason. Damn.

Big Brown was awesome on both.

Was this a typo? Did you mean Big Red?

Kelso was OK on grass in the regular occasions he tried it in the DC International..

For a foreign horse, you're talking about a Dubai Millennium.

Absolutely dominant turf horse at 10f in Europe -- obliterated everything in his Dubai dirt races.

Also had a very aggressive running style better suited to American racing.

Very American pedigree as well, sire was Seeking the Gold, who you think dirt, not turf. The 2nd dam Fall Aspen won the Matron, Astarita, and Prioress at Belmont, and she dropped a Breeders Cup Juvenile and Preakness winner in Timber Country among many other good ones.

Kelso eventually won one of those...but he has a much stronger claim to greatest dirt horse of all-time than he does to greatest multi-surface horse.

Right.. Hence the description 'OK' in his tries on grass that came in the International. Those runs show how little grass racing there was yet. Kelso was beaten in 2 of the Internationals by T.V. Lark and Mongo who were 'Turf Champion' in the respective years, but were both predominantly dirt horses themselves. And darn good ones.

Balto Star came to mind mostly because he popped at a big price in the UN Handicap.

I like Balto Star about as much as anybody, but he's a farcry from belonging in this conversation.

Not that Barbaro and Big Brown have a morsel of a claim either, but at least they own that 'what if' factor.

Affirmed Success was decent on both

He wasn't great on turf, but Dr. Fager probably belongs on the list. I think he beat Fort Marcy in the UN.

and gave him 16 pounds!

he got champion turf horse after that one effort, but what an effort.

I understand. When you start at the top everyone else is stacked somewhere down the line and my mentioning Balto Star has created a new low.
However, when a horse is favored in the majority of his races and the public lets them go at the longest price of their career they become memorable which brought him to mind. I never claimed he belonged with any of the aforementioned horses.

I suppose there should be some criteria to determine what qualifies a horse in this conversation. For instance Balto Star ran the majority of his races on the dirt and I'm not sure he ever won a G1. His lone G1 came on the grass if memory serves me correct. If I can avoid lowering the threshold any more than I have already I'll throw in Court Vision.

I forgot about Waya. Top ten for sure.

I see now. Both surfaces.

How about Lava Man?

His win in the Whittingham on turf might have been is greatest race.

Not in the conversation for "the best in the last 50 years," but in more recent memory Einstein was no slouch.

It was an honest mistake. Didn't read the thread starter all the way though. I'm imposing a two year bowl ban and taking away 9 scholarships from myself.

I swear you wait in your jammies and check every day for the once in six months I post something so you can say something mean.

That seems pathetic and embarrassing to me.

Check back in April for your next " tee hee " opportunity.

I knew what you meant Vic. If Bid was on the turf, I'm sure he would've been the best ever on that surface as well...but let's talk horses. Which horse do you think is Rosario's best chance for Breeders Cup glory?

Haven't looked close enough to have a decent opinion on that.

Secretariat -male

Waya -female

You gathered that from Secretariat's one (if I remember correctly) turf race in his career?

He actually was 2 for 2 on he turf winning the Man o War and The Candian International his last 2 races. His Man o War set the track record

Ah yes, forgot the Man O War....though 2 starts, I'm not sure is enough to talk about about as the best dual surface horse....IN a way Wise Dan is a better example with Syn and Turf as the 2 surfaces.

Secretariat may have been better on turf than dirt. At the very least he was an all-time great talent on both.

That seems to be the prevailing wisdom which doesn't make it correct. With 2 starts on it we'll never know.

No, we do know. You can keep pretending you somehow know better....but you don't.

Well said. I believe both of these races are posted on YouTube. Very powerful performances.

One of my favorite 'what ifs' in sports is, "What if Secretariat had run in Arc and won."