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-   -   8/24 (SAR): Travers, King's Bishop, Test (G1's), Ballston Spa (G2) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51586)

Kasept 08-20-2013 07:42 AM

8/24 (SAR): Travers, King's Bishop, Test (G1's), Ballston Spa (G2)
 
9th (4:05) Test S. (G1)

7 Furlongs | Fillies | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $500,000

1 Irish Lute Albarado R J 116 L
2 Baby J Castellano J J 118 L
3 So Many Ways Napravnik R 120 L
4 I'm Mom's Favorite Velasquez C 116 L
5 Sweet Lulu Leparoux J R 116 L
6 Lighthouse Bay Rocco J S Jr 122 L
7 Ju Ju Eyeballs Ortiz I Jr 116 L
8 My Happy Face Rosario J 118 L
9 Wildcat Lily Velazquez J R 118 L



10th (4:38) Ketel One Ballston Spa S. (G2)

1 1/16 Miles (Inner turf) | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $250,000

1 Laughing (IRE) Lezcano J 123 L
2 Pianist Smith M E 118 L
3 Miz Ida Bridgmohan S X 118 L
4 Centre Court Velazquez J R 123 L
5 Hungry Island Castellano J J 118 L
6 Somali Lemonade Rosario J 118 L
7 Hard Not to Like Prado E S 118 L
8 Embarr Morales P 118 L
MTO Skyfall No Rider 112 L



11th (5:10) Foxwoods King's Bishop S. (G1)

7 Furlongs | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $500,000

1 Salutos Amigos Ortiz J L 117 L
2 Forty Tales Rosario J 123 L
3 Capo Bastone Ortiz I Jr 117 L
4 Slan Abhaile Garcia Alan 117 L
5 Majestic Hussar Lezcano J 117 L
6 Bad Hombre Alvarado J 117 L
7 Mentor Cane Prado E S 117 L
8 Declan's Warrior Velazquez J R 119 L
9 Overanalyze Castellano J J 123 L
10 Let Em Shine Smith M E 117 L
11 Integrity Maragh R 117 L
12 Central Banker Albarado R J 117 L
13 Miraculousmo Napravnik R 117 L
14 No Distinction Rocco J S Jr 117 L



12th (5:46) Travers S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $1,000,000

1 Romansh Castellano J J 126 L
2 Orb Rosario J 126 L
3 Verrazano Velazquez J R 126 L
4 Golden Soul Albarado R J 126 L
5 Will Take Charge Saez L 126 L
6 Moreno Ortiz J L 126 L
7 War Dancer Garcia Alan 126 L
8 Palace Malice Smith M E 126 L
9 Transparent Ortiz I Jr 126

randallscott35 08-20-2013 06:40 PM

Omar Moreno wire to wire.

RockHardTen1985 08-20-2013 06:43 PM

Shitty thing about that Bishop for me is the 2 horses I want the most are likely going to destroy each other early.....

Let Em Shine and MAJESTIC HUSSAR.
Byk where did my sexy go? This is a sexy day!!!!

Sightseek 08-21-2013 01:34 PM

What a card! 14 for the King's Bishop. :eek:

craiger1313 08-22-2013 12:32 PM

Haven't gotten the group in the Ballston Spa figured out the last two times and not sure why that would change!!!!! If it wasn't for Steve pointing me to Laughing last time then it would have cost me even more......

GLTA

Kasept 08-23-2013 04:01 AM

TRAVERS PP'S

-BT- 08-23-2013 09:09 AM

always excited for travers day, but is there really a need for 14 races?

-bt-

NTamm1215 08-23-2013 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -BT- (Post 941702)
always excited for travers day, but is there really a need for 14 races?

-bt-

Can a fan or bettor really complain about that card?

Danzig 08-23-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 941715)
Can a fan or bettor really complain about that card?

people can find anything to complain about. i'd love to go to a track and have 14 to choose from.

-BT- 08-23-2013 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 941715)
Can a fan or bettor really complain about that card?

i believe i can, just seems like too many races
and i don't think i'm the only one

http://www.drf.com/news/steven-crist...races-saratoga

-bt-

Seattleallstar 08-24-2013 08:00 AM

Transparent is my longshot, could be peaking at the right time for this after not being up to snuff vs this bunch a few months ago.

randallscott35 08-24-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35 (Post 941380)
Omar Moreno wire to wire.

And a head bob. Rita Moreno would've had it.

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 04:58 PM

Pletchers monmouth game does not seem to Travel to Saratoga, Verrazano was done at the QP.

randallscott35 08-24-2013 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 942113)
Pletchers monmouth game does not seem to Travel to Saratoga, Verrazano was done at the QP.

Verrazano needed the Throgs Neck to get there today. Yuck

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 05:02 PM

Race completely changed for most when Palice Malice missed the break, but Will Take Charge was mid pack so the race was pretty fair for all.

pointman 08-24-2013 05:02 PM

A stunning display of incompetent riding by Mike Smith today.

Sightseek 08-24-2013 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 942116)
Race completely changed for most when Palice Malice missed the break, but Will Take Charge was mid pack so the race was pretty fair for all.

I agree. The only thing I wonder is if Orb might have finished slightly better had he been asked later? Tough call though when you see the hole up the rail.

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek (Post 942119)
I agree. The only thing I wonder is if Orb might have finished slightly better had he been asked later? Tough call though when you see the hole up the rail.

I cant blame the rider for any of that, sure maybe he has to be ridden for one burst because as a grinder he sure seems like a G2 type horse, he has no real turn of foot.

Merlinsky 08-24-2013 05:13 PM

I've been trying to watch the live post-Travers show but it looks like the NYRA website went down. Anybody else having that problem?

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 05:15 PM

Been down all day but they will have it on Youtube later.

Aly-Sheba 08-24-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman (Post 942117)
A stunning display of incompetent riding by Mike Smith today.

I'm not sure what race you were watching but P.M. broke awkward and bobbled coming out of that gate, witch took him out of game. Incompetent would be Durkin not being to call the winner of the Travers and him not being able to call Central Banker 3rd in the King Bishop!

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly-Sheba (Post 942155)
I'm not sure what race you were watching but P.M. broke awkward and bobbled coming out of that gate, witch took him out of game. Incompetent would be Durkin not being to call the winner of the Travers and him not being able to call Central Banker 3rd in the King Bishop!

The only think I think Mike should have done differently is try to cut the corner on My Happy Face, other than that its just the way races unfolded.

pointman 08-24-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly-Sheba (Post 942155)
I'm not sure what race you were watching but P.M. broke awkward and bobbled coming out of that gate, witch took him out of game. Incompetent would be Durkin not being to call the winner of the Travers and him not being able to call Central Banker 3rd in the King Bishop!

I mentioned on the selections thread after the race that I missed the bad break initially. However, the fact that he didn't go to the front on Pianist and didn't take Let Em Shine to the rail on the lead and try to wire them is mind boggling to me.

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman (Post 942159)
I mentioned on the selections thread after the race that I missed the bad break initially. However, the fact that he didn't go to the front on Pianist and didn't take Let Em Shine to the rail on the lead and try to wire them is mind boggling to me.

I bet Pianist, dream run really but that gutless horse would not go by, you dont get a better trip really.

Let Em Shine was being asked very early on then was practically eased, I suppose if he went to the whip he could have gotten past Mentor Crane, maybe.

If these races were run with machines and piloted by robots maybe everything would play out in perfect orchestra but that is very much not in the case.

pointman 08-24-2013 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 942160)
I bet Pianist, dream run really but that gutless horse would not go by, you dont get a better trip really.

Let Em Shine was being asked very early on then was practically eased, I suppose if he went to the whip he could have gotten past Mentor Crane, maybe.

If these races were run with machines and piloted by robots maybe everything would play out in perfect orchestra but that is very much not in the case.

Smith didn't try to get Pianist in front and I believe if he sent early Pianist was faster than the 1.

He had the lead on Let Em Shine but for some odd reason he didn't take to the rail to shut off and force Mentor Cane to go outside of him. Neither needed to be a machine. Smith just needed to have a smart strategy. He didn't on either of those horses plain and simple.

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman (Post 942164)
Smith didn't try to get Pianist in front and I believe if he sent early Pianist was faster than the 1.

He had the lead on Let Em Shine but for some odd reason he didn't take to the rail to shut off and force Mentor Cane to go outside of him. Neither needed to be a machine. Smith just needed to have a smart strategy. He didn't on either of those horses plain and simple.

You should give some tips before the races are run.

pointman 08-24-2013 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 942168)
You should give some tips before the races are run.

Seriously?

I'll try to dumb it down for you. Both the turf course and main track were playing to an inside speed bias. On paper, IMO, Smith had the fastest horse out of the gate who could get to the lead in both those races, a tactical advantage the way the courses were playing.

On Pianist he didn't try to, he let a horse he could have outrun to the lead get the lead and took his horse's best weapon away from him.

On Let Em Shine he had the lead and could have chosen to take his horse over to the rail on the best part of the track and let his horse do what he wants to do, outrun his competition, close the rail and force Mentor Cane to the outside and chase him. Instead he let Mentor Cane take the rail and tried to chase him.

Do you think either Pianist or Let Em Shine is a horse that wants to rate and chase outside another speed horse?

cakes44 08-24-2013 08:16 PM

WTC hasn't put together 2 good races in a row for quite some time until today. Might be turning a corner and become the real deal.

cakes44 08-24-2013 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman (Post 942171)
Seriously?

I'll try to dumb it down for you. Both the turf course and main track were playing to an inside speed bias. On paper, IMO, Smith had the fastest horse out of the gate who could get to the lead in both those races, a tactical advantage the way the courses were playing.

On Pianist he didn't try to, he let a horse he could have outrun to the lead get the lead and took his horse's best weapon away from him.

On Let Em Shine he had the lead and could have chosen to take his horse over to the rail on the best part of the track and let his horse do what he wants to do, outrun his competition, close the rail and force Mentor Cane to the outside and chase him. Instead he let Mentor Cane take the rail and try to chase him.

Do you think either Pianist or Let Em Shine is a horse that wants to rate and chase outside another speed horse?

Well, he must have thought speed was playing well on the turf before the 5th race. He was going to be on the lead that race or wipe out his horse trying.

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman (Post 942171)
Seriously?

I'll try to dumb it down for you. Both the turf course and main track were playing to an inside speed bias. On paper, IMO, Smith had the fastest horse out of the gate who could get to the lead in both those races, a tactical advantage the way the courses were playing.

On Pianist he didn't try to, he let a horse he could have outrun to the lead get the lead and took his horse's best weapon away from him.

On Let Em Shine he had the lead and could have chosen to take his horse over to the rail on the best part of the track and let his horse do what he wants to do, outrun his competition, close the rail and force Mentor Cane to the outside and chase him. Instead he let Mentor Cane take the rail and tried to chase him.

Do you think either Pianist or Let Em Shine is a horse that wants to rate and chase outside another speed horse?

Thanks for dumbing down your opinion for me.

I dont think Pianist was chasing anything, I think she was just in a workout more or less and then a sprint to the wire. If you think she was so compromised she will be a great bet for you next time.

Let Em Shine certainly would have been beaten only 29 lengths instead of 30 had he gunned to the lead.

pointman 08-24-2013 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 942178)
Thanks for dumbing down your opinion for me.

I dont think Pianist was chasing anything, I think she was just in a workout more or less and then a sprint to the wire. If you think she was so compromised she will be a great bet for you next time.

Let Em Shine certainly would have been beaten only 29 lengths instead of 30 had he gunned to the lead.

You are entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't bet Pianist back unless she had a the kind of tactical advantage she had today.

I'm not sure Let Em Shine would have won, but certainly may have if he took advantage of the biased part of the track and let the horse do what it wants to do. That's just my opinion. You have the right to disagree and bet accordingly.

RockHardTen1985 08-24-2013 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman (Post 942164)
Smith didn't try to get Pianist in front and I believe if he sent early Pianist was faster than the 1.

He had the lead on Let Em Shine but for some odd reason he didn't take to the rail to shut off and force Mentor Cane to go outside of him. Neither needed to be a machine. Smith just needed to have a smart strategy. He didn't on either of those horses plain and simple.

Was the rail that good? Orb.

Scav 08-24-2013 10:04 PM

The very fact that I left off Laughing and used Miz Ida instead, knowing speed was outstanding, should ban me from handicapping/wagering for a full year. Cost me a $1 P4....Priceless!

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 942199)
Was the rail that good? Orb.

Maybe Orb is just that average.

Merlinsky 08-24-2013 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 942202)
Maybe Orb is just that average.

Supposedly Orb doesn't like being down inside. Then there's the whole 'coming off a 77 day layoff in a G1 against the other top 3yos while racing at 1 1/4 and finishing fairly close despite said layoff' thing. He finished right in there with the top 3 from the Jim Dandy having not had that race in him. It doesn't mean that but for the excuses he'd win all the time, but for God's sake he's not average. In his two races at Saratoga he's been 3rd both times, the first featured him losing to Violence and Titletown Five in his first attempt to break his maiden. Maybe he's not in love with it, who knows. It's not like he's losing to bums.

Let's take a minute and appreciate how 2 of the top 3 in the Travers ran in all 3 TC races and the just barely 4th place finisher was in 2 of 3 TC races.

10 pnt move up 08-24-2013 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky (Post 942209)
Supposedly Orb doesn't like being down inside. Then there's the whole 'coming off a 77 day layoff in a G1 against the other top 3yos while racing at 1 1/4 and finishing fairly close despite said layoff' thing. He finished right in there with the top 3 from the Jim Dandy having not had that race in him. It doesn't mean that but for the excuses he'd win all the time, but for God's sake he's not average. In his two races at Saratoga he's been 3rd both times, the first featured him losing to Violence and Titletown Five in his first attempt to break his maiden. Maybe he's not in love with it, who knows. It's not like he's losing to bums.

Let's take a minute and appreciate how 2 of the top 3 in the Travers ran in all 3 TC races and the just barely 4th place finisher was in 2 of 3 TC races.

Average was in terms of Derby winners and potential one time triple crown locks. Obviously in terms of the 20,000 horses bred in his crop he is vastly superior and one of the greats.

He had a dream trip and ran 3rd, depending on the spot I will have to look at it like that.

King Glorious 08-24-2013 11:47 PM

I don't think much of Orb but I can't help but feel like he would have won this race if he hadn't been compromised by his trainer. Coming into the lane, he had every look of a winner but he got tired and I feel like with a prep under his belt, he would have gotten the job done. There are two ways to look at it. He'll be better next time (Jockey Club Gold Cup?) and then the BC Classic will be his third race so could be his best. The other way to see it is that even if he is better in the next two, it probably won't be good enough to beat what he's likely to face and he missed a golden opportunity to take a huge race and possibly lock up a divisional title by looking ahead and forgetting the present.

alysheba4 08-25-2013 12:24 AM

saratoga is without question the hardest ( dirt track ) to cap.....i raised the white flag after today.

Sightseek 08-25-2013 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alysheba4 (Post 942215)
saratoga is without question the hardest ( dirt track ) to cap.....i raised the white flag after today.

Their turf races kill me. I almost pray for a bias so I can narrow down the usual 6 that have a shot to at least the speed horses. :o

Sightseek 08-25-2013 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious (Post 942214)
I don't think much of Orb but I can't help but feel like he would have won this race if he hadn't been compromised by his trainer. Coming into the lane, he had every look of a winner but he got tired and I feel like with a prep under his belt, he would have gotten the job done. There are two ways to look at it. He'll be better next time (Jockey Club Gold Cup?) and then the BC Classic will be his third race so could be his best. The other way to see it is that even if he is better in the next two, it probably won't be good enough to beat what he's likely to face and he missed a golden opportunity to take a huge race and possibly lock up a divisional title by looking ahead and forgetting the present.

We can guess that a prep would have made a difference, but so would have more pace. I though Orb ran pretty all things considered. That said, Palace Malice was still the best horse in the race.


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