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-   -   Highest pace figure in a dirt race so far this year (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50924)

Calzone Lord 06-05-2013 10:58 PM

Highest pace figure in a dirt race so far this year
 
For the first quarter mile:

The honor goes to the Kentucky Derby (119 on the 100 point scale)

The second fastest came in an allowance at Belmont Park on May 26th (116 on the 100 point scale) Sister State ran an opening quarter of 22.34 in the one-turn mile and finished dead last of 8, beaten 22.5 lengths at 7/2 odds.

Read The Research pressed that 22.34 first quarter from only a half length back, and finished 7th beaten 17 lengths as the 2/1 favorite.


For the Half mile:

Two-way tie between the Kentucky Derby and the Harrison E Johnson Memorial at Laurel on March 17th (both races 112 on a scale of 100)


For six furlongs:

The Harrison E Johnson Memorial at Laurel wins outright. The May 4th Kentucky Derby at Churchill Downs finishes 2nd outright.


The winner of the Harrison E Johnson Memorial was Norman Absjournson. He was dead last, and 19 lengths back in the field of six, and raillied to win with a career best Beyer figure of 103




However, nothing was even remotely contested about the pace in the Harrison E Johnson Memorial .... Eighttofasttocatch completely ran off and did it all on his own.

Here is the replay of the Harrison E Johnson Memorial from earlier in the year. It looked like a horse trying to do a Silence Suzuka or Precious Passion imitation.

http://www1.drf.com/displayVideo.do?...=D&country=USA

blackthroatedwind 06-06-2013 02:37 AM

We discussed the May 26th race on Trips&Traps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw6wt...6EB24C&index=1

Calzone Lord 06-06-2013 06:42 AM

Nice work breaking that one down.

Of all the good synthetic races run this year, the race that earned the highest pace figure of the year so far on that surface, was in an open 16K claimer for older males at Golden Gate.

Wrona was fantastic with his race call in that race. Probably the best race call in any race all year.

Conrad 06-06-2013 08:52 AM

The Oaklawn Hcp was pretty quick early too - not as fast as the others you listed but the 6f pace fig (from my own humble numbers) was very fast.

That Lrl race you listed was ridiculously fast:
6f in 111.8 and the next fastest 6f split in a two turn race that day was 115.3.
They ran four races around two turns.

blackthroatedwind 06-14-2013 05:11 PM

If you paid attention to this thread, you just cashed in the 7th at Belmont.

outofthebox 06-14-2013 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 932017)
If you paid attention to this thread, you just cashed in the 7th at Belmont.

Well done! :tro:

Calzone Lord 06-14-2013 06:04 PM

Yep. Wire-to-wire on the big cut-back to 6f for a horse involved chasing that blistering pace at a mile. Nice job analyzing that race on Trips and Traps.

That May 26th BEL race had the 2nd highest pace figure at a 1/4 of any race all year. The horse who set the pace in the fastest paced race at a 1/4 this year, he also came back to win a prestigious 3yo stake at Belmont Park last Saturday.

10 pnt move up 06-15-2013 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 932020)
Yep. Wire-to-wire on the big cut-back to 6f for a horse involved chasing that blistering pace at a mile. Nice job analyzing that race on Trips and Traps.

That May 26th BEL race had the 2nd highest pace figure at a 1/4 of any race all year. The horse who set the pace in the fastest paced race at a 1/4 this year, he also came back to win a prestigious 3yo stake at Belmont Park last Saturday.

Drugs,

Been doing a lot of chart work in combination with the figs, do you have to tweak the parameters for synthetic? It is very tough to find a +20 pace figure final time race in socal, you might see it on the turf more than the syn now of days. I haven't looked at say Kee or TP to see if the same phenomenon is occurring but its tough finding races to use in socal.

cmorioles 06-15-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 932102)
Drugs,

Been doing a lot of chart work in combination with the figs, do you have to tweak the parameters for synthetic? It is very tough to find a +20 pace figure final time race in socal, you might see it on the turf more than the syn now of days. I haven't looked at say Kee or TP to see if the same phenomenon is occurring but its tough finding races to use in socal.

Here is a fake dirt example:

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart...061213USA3.pdf

http://www.arlingtonpark.com/racing-...d/2013-06-12/3

1/4 mile gets a 108 figure from me.

You won't see many more vicious duels than this, the two chalks battle each other and finish last and next to last.

cmorioles 06-15-2013 04:55 PM

Here is another ridiculous pace race from Arlington on the polytrack, a 101 first 1/4, 81 half mile, 48 finish. It led to a $76 winner and a $343 exacta.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart...061413USA4.pdf

http://www.arlingtonpark.com/racing-...d/2013-06-14/4

10 pnt move up 06-15-2013 05:02 PM

Thanks CJ, so I wonder whats going on in socal because I just am looking through the cards back performances and the 74-70 seems to be the average pace and the extremes are pretty rare, maybe just a little bit better riders knowing you cant really do that. I am sure there are faster fall aparts in socal I just don't seem them like I used to.

cmorioles 06-15-2013 06:38 PM

Yeah, I think just better riders knowing you can't get cooked on synthetics.

Calzone Lord 06-19-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

The second fastest came in an allowance at Belmont Park on May 26th (116 on the 100 point scale) Sister State ran an opening quarter of 22.34 in the one-turn mile and finished dead last of 8, beaten 22.5 lengths at 7/2 odds.

Read The Research pressed that 22.34 first quarter from only a half length back, and finished 7th beaten 17 lengths as the 2/1 favorite.
Read The Reserach ($6.70) won her next start, at Belmont today.

Of the four horses in the crazy breakaway speed duel, Read The Reserach was the second one to run back so far. Classic Point ($13.20) was the other.

However, Sister State has been entered in Saturday's Grade 1 Mother Goose off of her last-out Beyer figure of 33 -- when she set the pace in the breakaway duel.

Might have got a little price on Sister State in an N1X alw race ... but obviously she's no chance against Dreaming of Julia and Close Hatches.

10 pnt move up 06-19-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 932556)
Read The Reserach ($6.70) won her next start, at Belmont today.

Of the four horses in the crazy breakaway speed duel, Read The Reserach was the second one to run back so far. Classic Point ($13.20) was the other.

However, Sister State has been entered in Saturday's Grade 1 Mother Goose off of her last-out Beyer figure of 33 -- when she set the pace in the breakaway duel.

Might have got a little price on Sister State in an N1X alw race ... but obviously she's no chance against Dreaming of Julia and Close Hatches.

Doing the work I have the past few weeks there is indeed key races but I am finding they are more tied to the pace dynamics than the talent dynamics, and for every key pace horse (either compromised front end or back end of the race) there are negative key horses to play against..........its amazing how consistent it is.

Gate Dancer 06-20-2013 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 932556)
Read The Reserach ($6.70) won her next start, at Belmont today.

Of the four horses in the crazy breakaway speed duel, Read The Reserach was the second one to run back so far. Classic Point ($13.20) was the other.

What I found interesting was how Read The Research did it today, she broke sharply with Lezcano then he actually took her back (or the others just outgunned her) then stalked and pounced at the top of the stretch and held off anyone else. Totally different running style..........but effective.

parsixfarms 06-20-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 932556)
Of the four horses in the crazy breakaway speed duel, Read The Reserach was the second one to run back so far. Classic Point ($13.20) was the other.

Finished second to Classic Point last Friday, and then lost a four-way shake after putting a claim in on Read the Research yesterday.

10 pnt move up 06-20-2013 09:43 PM

I am going to play Coach Bob in the 7th tomorrow at HP. He ran on a 101 pace last out at a mile in a graded stake, the other speed has already come back to win a stake. The 1 post is scary, basically miss the break and your dead, and there is some speed in here and other talent but this may be a case of just running them off their feet at 15/1 or so.

10 pnt move up 06-28-2013 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 932147)
Here is another ridiculous pace race from Arlington on the polytrack, a 101 first 1/4, 81 half mile, 48 finish. It led to a $76 winner and a $343 exacta.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart...061413USA4.pdf

http://www.arlingtonpark.com/racing-...d/2013-06-14/4

Runs today in AP first race, cuts back to 5.5 and should be more of a stalker, second best on figs to an odds on horse in the 1A but he rates a decent shot and 6/1 seems fair.

Alabama Stakes 06-28-2013 01:35 PM

the 6 hoss in the 1st at AP ?

10 pnt move up 06-28-2013 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes (Post 933289)
the 6 hoss in the 1st at AP ?

yea

cmorioles 06-28-2013 03:04 PM

Easy exacta, 1A was to good.

3kings 06-28-2013 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 933303)
Easy exacta, 1A was to good.

Good call.

10 pnt move up 06-28-2013 03:25 PM

1/9? I was able to make a little but that horse did not look 1/9 on paper, that was kinda a "they knew" type deal, especially how easy the horse won.

to add to that the 1 looked like the weaker half of the entries, had never been in the front let along shortening up today, yet was hand ridden after dueling.......have to note not to trust that barn.

brianwspencer 06-28-2013 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 933308)
1/9? I was able to make a little but that horse did not look 1/9 on paper, that was kinda a "they knew" type deal, especially how easy the horse won.

to add to that the 1 looked like the weaker half of the entries, had never been in the front let along shortening up today, yet was hand ridden after dueling.......have to note not to trust that barn.

How much did they need to "know" with the horse dropping from an open N1WX allowance in which he was 9/2 into a $5,000 NW1Y or NW4 lifetime race?

10 pnt move up 06-28-2013 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer (Post 933328)
How much did they need to "know" with the horse dropping from an open N1WX allowance in which he was 9/2 into a $5,000 NW1Y or NW4 lifetime race?

I use figures and he had no real advantage and some N1wx's can be pretty weak.

The class handicappers had their way I suppose but 1/9 I reserve for a horse like Zenyatta in a 1x race not that horse.

brianwspencer 06-28-2013 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 933329)
I use figures and he had no real advantage and some N1wx's can be pretty weak.

The class handicappers had their way I suppose but 1/9 I reserve for a horse like Zenyatta in a 1x race not that horse.

Fair enough on how you got there. I just thought it was splitting hairs between whether the entry was going to go to post at 30 cents on the dollar or 10 cents on the dollar, definitely not something anyone had to have any secretive knowledge about for a betting interest that was obviously going to go strongly favored, and was odds-on to be odds-on in that race.

The horse had a massive class edge and was beaten just five lengths two starts back at the same trip behind a horse who came back to repeat in what was arguably the best main track allowance we've had all meet top to bottom.

Scav 06-28-2013 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer (Post 933330)
Fair enough on how you got there. I just thought it was splitting hairs between whether the entry was going to go to post at 30 cents on the dollar or 10 cents on the dollar, definitely not something anyone had to have any secretive knowledge about for a betting interest that was obviously going to go strongly favored, and was odds-on to be odds-on in that race.

The horse had a massive class edge and was beaten just five lengths two starts back at the same trip behind a horse who came back to repeat in what was arguably the best main track allowance we've had all meet top to bottom.

Besides Ville, the other horse made just as much sense.

The more shocking thing to me is that Ville was not claimed, I know of 4 people that were dropping a slip on him if they liked what they saw in the paddock and obviously all four did not.

10 pnt move up 06-28-2013 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav (Post 933333)
Besides Ville, the other horse made just as much sense.

The more shocking thing to me is that Ville was not claimed, I know of 4 people that were dropping a slip on him if they liked what they saw in the paddock and obviously all four did not.

Ville kinda smelled on paper to me and that's why I was interested in the race, on figures he dominated the field and was in good form to be dropped into that spot. I know nothing about Chicago racing, I mean zero, so it was an outsiders perspective.

brianwspencer 06-28-2013 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 933343)
Ville kinda smelled on paper to me and that's why I was interested in the race, on figures he dominated the field and was in good form to be dropped into that spot. I know nothing about Chicago racing, I mean zero, so it was an outsiders perspective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 933329)
I use figures and he had no real advantage

Huh?

Either way, you're correct about there being red flags all over it considering the horse was more or less in career form a couple starts back. If the horse stays together, they may have gotten away with one, because that horse is now eligible for starters and could probably do a little bit of damage at the level.

Calzone Lord 06-28-2013 09:22 PM

The 1A had a strong edge on CJ's figures...which is on a 100 point scale, so they have more of a scrunched factor to them because the value of a point is more significant




Considering that the horse went off at odds of 1/9 ... I'm guessing it was dominant on everyones figures.

10 pnt move up 06-28-2013 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 933349)
The 1A had a strong edge on CJ's figures...which is on a 100 point scale, so they have more of a scrunched factor to them because the value of a point is more significant




Considering that the horse went off at odds of 1/9 ... I'm guessing it was dominant on everyones figures.

But it was the 1 who jogged, not the 1A. His 57 hardly inspired me.

cmorioles 06-29-2013 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 933351)
But it was the 1 who jogged, not the 1A. His 57 hardly inspired me.

NO, it was the 1A that won..easily.

I think it is safe to say the new rider on the 6 overdid it, taking well back at 5.5f, after the last race debacle.

10 pnt move up 06-29-2013 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles (Post 933354)
NO, it was the 1A that won..easily.

I think it is safe to say the new rider on the 6 overdid it, taking well back at 5.5f, after the last race debacle.

well that makes sense, and Arlington had it wrong initially on there website and watching it I paid attention to the 6.

cmorioles 06-30-2013 10:32 PM

Not only won, but demolished the field.

Zaf 07-01-2013 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer (Post 933348)
Huh?

Either way, you're correct about there being red flags all over it considering the horse was more or less in career form a couple starts back. If the horse stays together, they may have gotten away with one, because that horse is now eligible for starters and could probably do a little bit of damage at the level.

I see by your Avatar you are a Av's fan, the kid you drafted #1 can be the next Sidney Crosby, he is from Cole Harbor Nova Scotia, Sid the Kid also grew up in Cole Harbor. I had the opportunity to see Nathan play many times this year. I attend many QMJHL games in Quebec and Nova Scotia and I will tell you this kid is the real deal. Have not been this high on a player since the Islanders drafted John Taveres. :tro:

brianwspencer 07-01-2013 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaf (Post 933675)
I see by your Avatar you are a Av's fan, the kid you drafted #1 can be the next Sidney Crosby, he is from Cole Harbor Nova Scotia, Sid the Kid also grew up in Cole Harbor. I had the opportunity to see Nathan play many times this year. I attend many QMJHL games in Quebec and Nova Scotia and I will tell you this kid is the real deal. Have not been this high on a player since the Islanders drafted John Taveres. :tro:

I'm cautiously optimistic about the next few years -- lots of young talent on that team, and now even more. Really excited about the pick. Thanks for the extra info, have just been reading a lot about him and watching whatever clips I could find that they had put together.

Alabama Stakes 07-01-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dugout (Post 933611)
Classic Point repeated today at 12/1 winning easily.


thanks for sharing that after the fact.

cmorioles 07-01-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes (Post 933695)
thanks for sharing that after the fact.

Should he have walked you to the window? This thread has been up for a long time. Put horses in your stable mail and then you won't forget.


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