Moss calls him the best WR ever at Super Bowl press confrence
 

If people can think that Seattle Slew was a better race horse than Spectacular Bid ... obviously Jerry Rice doesn't deserve to be compared with Moss if that's the case.

Rice had that Spectacular Bid like level on unbelievably sustained elite production ... but anyone who actually watched Moss in college and early in Minny knows there will never be anything like him ever again.

The greatest football play I've ever seen a player make is at 7 minutes and 43 seconds into this video clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0oGFz48foA

He catches a Hail Mary, and manages a no-look behind the back lateral for a TD as time ran-out in the 1st half. The Vikes won the game by 8 points to go 6-0.

Interestingly, the box score credited Moe Williams with a 15-yard TD reception on that play. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...0310190min.htm


That Minny team in 2003 was really bad outside of Moss being at the tail end of his prime.

They had the 23rd ranked defense, and the leading rusher was Moe Williams and the 2nd leading receiver was Moe Williams.

Moe Williams 2nd best rushing season ever was 414 yards...and his 2nd best receiving season ever was 251 yards. And he was that teams leading rusher, 2nd leader in receiving yards behind Moss, and the defense was 23rd ranked in both points allowed and yards allowed.

Below AVG defense, plus Moe Williams as your 2nd best offense weapon, should never translate to a 6-0 start and a winning record.

Maybe that is why Nick Saben took Duante Culpepper over Drew Brees.

A classless Jerry Rice responds:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8895051

Man, laugh it off if you are truly the best.

Personally I've got him 3rd behind Moss, Monk, then Jerry Rice.

Moss is the goat. Hands down. Rice also said that he put Young and Montana in the HOF. A little 2 cocky. Most of Moss numbers are with Culpepper. Says it all IMO.

After the last comment, it's pretty safe to say Rice is the best ever. DB1985 is never right about anything. Nor does he ever pay off his debts. Quite a combo.

Montana made Jerry Rice great. And he is one of the greats, no doubt.

Moss made Culpepper look like the greatest QB of all time.

I don't believe it can even be debated that Jerry Rice isn't Jerry Rice if he has Dante Culpepper behind center instead of Joe Montana.


If you can only define greatness by stats, then you not only have to be one of the best, but you then also have to fall into a perfect scenario to make you great. Like Jerry Rice.

If you can define greatness based on sheer impact - Moss is greater than Rice. Period.

Rice was an outstanding WR who benefited from having an outstanding cast around him, which often led to single/blown coverages thus amazing plays and stats.

Moss would force defenses to scheme around him. Moss, in his prime, changed the game.

Michael Irvin also called Moss the greatest deep threat ever....but found it laughable to call him best ever. It is pretty laughable. Yes it helped Rice had Montana but it also helped Montana he had Rice.

Not really sure why its classless for Rice to say he's the best, but not for Moss to say he's the best. Double standard much?

He came across as pissed that someone would possibly question his crowned status as the greatest ever and referenced his 3 rings as that being his self-appointed benchmark for greatness. He did correctly reference the good fortune of playing with the greatest pair of QB's ever, which was a bit redeeming, but overall came across as classless. If you don't agree, then well, there's that. One opinion vs. another.

Like I said - if he wasn't so threatened by Moss, laugh it off and wish the guy luck. He would definitely have come across as the bigger man, at least.

Do you think it was classless for Moss to say he was the best ever?

I don't think he's threatened at all, but we can assume these guys all have pretty big egos. When someone questions your rightful spot as the top dog, you respond.

He did wish Moss luck, after he explained why he thought he was the greatest. We'll agree to disagree, but I am interested in your response to whether or not you thought it was classless of Moss as well.

To answer you question first, Hoss - no I don't find it classless. I find it kinda humorous, and 100% correct. Perhaps if I held the popular opinion that Rice is the self appointed king of all WR's, it might rub me the wrong way. I guess.

Rice is one of the greats - there's no denying that. But in fairness the amazing fortune of being placed on one of the greatest offenses in NFL history for that dream career should weighted into the formulation.

In a lot of people's eye's, the stats he amassed make him the greatest. Fine.

Zennatta had a hand-picked, dream career too. Is she the greatest of all time? Ever try to argue against that point with a Zennatta fan?

The fervor seems eerily paralleled.

I guess I don't see how one guy can be classless for thinking (and then saying) he is the best ever and pointing to his accomplishments as proof, while retired. And then another can not be considered classless for thinking and saying the same thing, a week before the ultimate team game.

For me personally, what I saw Rice do on the field makes him the greatest. I couldn't even tell you what his stats are without looking them up. I also don't think most of the players who call Rice the best are looking at his stats. Moss is obviously in the discussion, no denying that. He's an amazing talent.

I get the argument that Rice was helped playing in a great offense. But I think it is important to remember that part of what made it so great was Rice.

Do we look at Jordan differently because he played with Pippen? Is Magic Johnson not as great because he played with countless hall of famers? Was Mickey Mantle not great because he played with so many hall of famers? I don't think so, so why should we hold it against Rice?

Moss has had 6 of the greatest seasons of any wide receiver in the history of football. That does not make him the greatest wide receiver ever. He had an enormous impact on the game and his talent is unmatched. But, Rice is the greatest ever in my opinion.

Rice had 60+ catch season from Jeff Garcia and 1000+ yard seasons with Rich Gannon. He was remarkably consistent throughout his career, something Randy Moss has not been.

DrugS once compared Moss to Discreet Cat. A truly freakish talent that was unstoppable when on his game. But, he could not be counted on long term. It's a terrific comparison.

If I were Rice, I wouldn't have even dignified it with a response.

Precociousness was a big part of that comparison -- Discreet Cat ran a faster number in his debut than Lost in the Fog did while winning the King's Bishop on the same card. In terms of comparing careers ... Discreet Cat obviously isn't a 1st ballot Hall of Famer, Moss is.

A point that hasn't been touched upon -- Randy Moss was recently voted as the player who had the best rookie season in NFL history at ANY POSITION, not just WR. In other words, he is the most outstanding rookie in NFL history.

#1 rookie season of all-time clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkex_soikf0

Remember, you have to be in college 3 seasons before you're eligible to play in the NFL.

There are reputable scouts who say Randy Moss almost certainly would have been a high quality NFL starter when he was a junior in high school. All of his measurables were there at that age and he is regarded as the consensus best high school football player in history at any position by the most reputable old scouts alive today.

Moss went his entire college career without getting shut out a single time. That's impossible and will never happen again. Moss caught 54 TD's in his only two seasons at Marshall. Rice got just 9 TD's in his first two seasons at Mississippi Valley State.

Moss fell in the draft to late 1st round because he was arrested 3 times before he ever played a snap in the NFL. He severed a jail stint. And he had scholarships revoked at Notre Dame and FSU before ever playing a snap there. He also refused to go to the NFL combine in Indy because he had already made a dentist appointment to get braces that week.

If any player today had the rap sheet and blew the combine off for a dentist appt ... they simply wouldn't get drafted.

He was the consensus best HS player ever, beat up on Ball State and Kent State in college and blew off the combine to get braces?

Nevermind what Rice did on the field in the NFL. Moss is the best.

I don't know if Moss is better than Rice or if Rice is better than Moss but Art Monk doesn't make my top 20.
Hell he isnt even the best Redskin WR, Charley Taylor would have that honor.

Sure Rice had Montana, BUT Moss had Pennington in College, it's a wash!;)

Warren Sapp, Deion Sanders, Michael Irvin, and Brian Billick's take on this topic:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...ace-in-history

Moss (like all players) was denied an opportunity to be allowed to play in the NFL in his prime because of the rule that players had to have 3 years of college.

Anyone who saw Moss in the years before he arrived in the NFL knew his prime was being wasted by college.

Terrell Owens did absolutely nothing in college until his senior year while he played for the Chattanooga Mocking Birds.

Jerry Rice didn't start turning it on in college until his Junior while playing in a very pass happy offense at Mississippi Valley State.

When Moss was at Marshall, he was recognized as the best player in all of college football at any position before his 2nd season.

The most reputable scouts awarded him that honor ... even Sports Illustrated called him the nations best player at any position going into his sophomore year.

The Moss who played at Marshall was a MUCH better athlete and had much greater leaping ability than the Moss who caught 23 TD's on that 16-0 Patriots team in 2007. He didn't play a single snap of pre-season that year and was coming off of a dud year in Oakland where he had hamstring issues.

Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 forty yard dash at the combine -- he didn't win with speed or size. Moss won with speed, size, body control, leaping ability, and incredible hands ... do you think he had more of those qualities at age 20 or age 30?

He had more speed at age 20, but he didn't have Brady throwing him the ball until he was 30. Brady got hurt in his 2nd season. So Moss was over 32 years old by the time he got his second season with Brady started.

From age 31 onward -- of course Rice is going to be a much better WR. His entire game wasn't based around his speed.

Here was an interesting quote about Moss from his rookie season:


Eddie George...

You've repeated most of this stuff like a dozen times man. Doesn't change my opinion. I don't care what Moss did at Marshall.

IMO, as an NFL receiver Rice is the best. Moss is top 3 or 4.

I think if you had to rank them on statistical production during their time in the NFL, of course Rice is #1.

It's a lot more tricky than trying to rank horses though. With horses, you're just looking at races.

With football players, it's an 11-on-11 game with 3 phases and many dozens of plays a game.

The championship thing is nonsense. Moss is probably going to win this year ... and he's basically been brought in to sit in the front row and get Crabtree and Vernon Davis to pay attention in meetings. Guys like Kapernick and Lamichael James have also gravitated to him and they talk about him like he is a God.

Harbaugh did with Randy Moss what Pittsburgh Phil would try to do with horses in his stable ... bring in a pet chicken, or pet dog, or pet rabbit to keep his horses happy during training and racing time.

2013 Randy Moss = Pittsburgh Phil's pet rooster.

I don't want you to think I don't think highly of Moss, because I do. Obviously I like messing with you about him...but the guy is great. It isn't easy to rate players and maybe I'm a little biased because I grew up watching Rice as a kid and was in awe of his ability.

It's just that when so many former players talk about how difficult it was to cover Rice and how great he was...it has to mean something.

How a reciever who had a huge propensity to take multiple plays "off" per game could even be mentioned in the same breath as Rice is mind boggling! Jerry ran crisp routes while Randy only ran deep ones (when he wanted to). Those who think Moss is the best ever are akin to me thinking Rockport Harbor was the best 2 yr old of his class, letting fandom completely mask us from the truth.

:zz::zz::zz:

It's not ridiculous.

Moss was voted the 2nd best NFL WR of all-time by a panel of famous former players and GM's.

He said "I think I am the greatest WR ever to play this game" -- which is a little different than saying "I think I am the greatest NFL WR of all-time"

Moss was the #1 player in the country at ANY position coming out of high school. He's obviously light years the best college WR of all-time. 54 touchdowns in 2 seasons with 2 different QB's playing in a run first offense.

Anyone who didn't regularly watch Moss play in his early years in Minnesota shouldn't talk.

I remember a game early in his career, where Moss had something like 130 yards worth of defensive pass interference called against him.

I've watched Calvin Johnson a lot ... and he couldn't carry Moss's jock. If anyone thinks Calvin Johnson is comparable with Moss they have to be crazy.

Calvin Johnson is the king of garbage time. Moss always quit in garbage time...and refused to risk injuries by padding his stats.

After being elected to the Hall Of Fame yesterday...Chris Carter when asked in an interview who were the biggest influences on his career as far as players go, he gave all the credit to Warren Moon and Randy Moss.

Moss really helped Carter squeeze a few more quality years out.

Cris Carter was in his 12th year for Moss's rookie year.

People forget that Cris Carter couldn't get on the field for the Miami Dolphins in 2002. He had just 8 catches for 66 yards for the Dolphins in the 2002 season -- he only started one game and was a reserve by seasons end.

If Cris Carter was really helping Moss out so much in 2000 and 2001 ... why was he such a spectacular dud with the Miami Dolphins in 2002? The Dolphins had Chris Chambers, James McKnight, and Oronde Gadsden as their other WR's ... it's not like his competition was murderers row.

Cris Carter has always been honest about how much Moss helped prolong his career ... but people would pretend that the decrepit Cris Carter that played with Moss in Minny in 2000 and 2001 was the same Cris Carter from 1994 when he was in his prime.

I'm going to be serious for a second....why does this matter at all?

Just like those who didn't watch Rice play regularly shouldn't either.

Because the NFL imposes restrictions.

The idea that someone has to waste 3 years of their life playing for free at a college is ridiculous.

Most WR's aren't even ready to play by their rookie year, so the restriction isn't as harmful to them like it was for Moss.

Moss was the undisputed best WR in football his rookie season. He was the only WR selected 1st team All-Pro by all 3 voting blocks...and his QB who started the season as a back-up in his 14th season and was unemployed the previous year, was second in the voting for NFL MVP even though he only started 14 games.

Rice was obviously the better NFL player in terms of body of work. Hell, he's probably the best NFL player in history in terms of body of work.

However, Rice had Joe Montana and Steve Young in his prime and he played in a system that was based on attacking teams with underneath passes instead of running the ball. So, perfect system for him, with great QB's.

Moss didn't get Tom Brady until he was 30 years old. And Pollard ended Brady's season in the 1st quarter of the 1st game the next season. So, Moss was 32-years-old and washed up when he had his 2nd season with Brady (just 1,264 yards receiving and tied for an NFL best 13 TD's)

Honestly man, the fact he couldn't turn pro until he did probably prolonged his career. Calling him immature and saying his priorities were out of wack at that age would be an understatement. Imagine if he had a bunch of money?

How many 49er games did you watch in the 80's and early 90's?

I have Moss as the best. The fact that people keep bringing up that Moss would take plays off is funny to me. To take plays off and still compile the numbers he did is incredible. The thing they don't understand is that a lot of the time, it was not only excepted by his coaches but also asked for. They wanted him conserving his energy for when they were asking him to go long. Whereas Rice might run three straight routes of 10-15 yards, Moss would be asked to run 40 yards. So if he took the next play off to be ready to run 40 yards again, they were ok with that.

Rice was more consistent. Moss was more explosive. Over a three game stretch, Rice might go for 8-100-1 each game. Moss might go 2-45-0, 3-60-0, 4-180-3. Moss put more fear into defensive backs and coordinators than anyone else ever has. You had to make sure you had both safeties in the area. It's no coincidence that the two most prolific single season offenses in NFL history both featured Moss.

Adding to what Calzone was saying about his college days, coaching staffs at both Notre Dame and Florida St said he was the greatest athlete to ever come to those schools. Going back to high school, he was also twice named as the top basketball player, even though future #7 NBA draft pick Jason Williams was on his team.

Give me equal players to surround them with and I'm taking Moss. There has never been an athlete like him and I doubt I'll ever see another one.

The hyperbole here is great. Ever hear of Bo Jackson? How about Jim Brown?

They weren't as good as Moss. Other than strength, there isn't any measurable thing I could think of that places them higher than Moss. We're talking about arguably the best receiver in history that was also a state 100/200 meter champ in track and was good enough to be voted top basketball player in the state over a future top 10 pick NBA player. Bowden and Holtz both said he was the best athlete ever at their respective schools and he never even played for them. Jackson was great. Brown was too. Deion Sanders was too. Joe Mauer is another top one. Maybe Dave Winfield is comparable.

Well if Lou Holtz said something it must be true.

Bo Jackson was a better athlete and so was Jim Brown. Aside from running the fastest 40 yard dash ever at the combine, Jackson also ran track at Auburn and qualified for Nationals his freshman and sophomore years. I'll take that over being the HS state champ in West Virginia, but just for good measure Jackson was also a two time state champ in the 100 meter dash, in Alabama. He was as good as Moss, if not better in college, he averaged over 6 yards per carry and won a Heisman. He was able to make an all star team in pro baseball and pro bowl in the NFL in his brief career.

I agree. Bo Jackson is a better all around athlete the best of our lifetime.

I'm in on this one, too.

no doubt. the guy was amazing.

moss could have been the best wr ever, but i don't think he was. i think he was his own worst enemy.

Baseball wise, Jackson was Adam Dunn with more speed. You would think with him being as fast as he was, he would have stolen more bases or that his steals success ratio would have been much better. Bo was a career. 250 hitter. He once led the league in strikeouts. He was pretty much feast or famine. Yao Ming got more votes than Shaq. Jeremy Lin got more votes than James Harden.