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-   -   Best and Worst Ride in the BC (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49042)

helicopter11 11-05-2012 07:06 PM

Best and Worst Ride in the BC
 
Best: Ramon Dominguez with Little mike

Worst: Patrick Husbands with Spring Venture

Conrad 11-05-2012 08:16 PM

Yutaka Take on Trailblazer made a ridiculously early and wide move in the Turf and wound up hanging for 4th or so.

Belinda Cubbage 11-05-2012 08:25 PM

The jockey Velazquez cost Point of Entry his rightful win. I felt so bad for mr Mcgaughey.

dalakhani 11-05-2012 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belinda Cubbage (Post 900664)
The jockey Velazquez cost Point of Entry his rightful win. I felt so bad for mr Mcgaughey.

Really? What was wrong with the ride? He saved all of the ground, made it through the hole on the rail and got beat by a horse that sat a superior trip and benefitted from the dynamics of that particular race. I honestly don't see what velazquez could have done that would have changed the result. Did I miss something?

Clip-Clop 11-06-2012 07:07 AM

Johnny did check early but I am not sure that cost him the race. Best, George Vancouver or trinniberg. Worst for me was the fugue.

NTamm1215 11-06-2012 07:18 AM

Best by a long way was Castellano on Zagora. He rode her and The Fugue.

Espinoza on John Scott was pretty ugly. Patrick Husbands on any horse is ugly. P. Val on Merit Man was terrible.

Calzone Lord 11-06-2012 07:22 AM

Dominguez on Little Mike was magician work.

Atigun's ride in the Marathon was obviously the worst ride of the BC. That was a monumental gaff on a horse who would have won easily had he not decided to try (and succeed) to collapse the race.

Coach Pants 11-06-2012 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani (Post 900666)
Really? What was wrong with the ride? He saved all of the ground, made it through the hole on the rail and got beat by a horse that sat a superior trip and benefitted from the dynamics of that particular race. I honestly don't see what velazquez could have done that would have changed the result. Did I miss something?

He didn't look comfortable on the rail. That's a decision that's difficult for a jockey to decipher. John R. caught on but it was too late. If the horse is moved off the rail a little earlier in the stretch he wins IMO.

blackthroatedwind 11-06-2012 08:07 AM

I agree on P Val on Merit Man ( he absolutely cost him the win by rating him needlessly on the lead ) and Mike Smith on Atigun ( that ride was just hilariously bad ).

jms62 11-06-2012 08:15 AM

If Little Mike doesn't win that we are all questioning why he wasn't taken to the lead. The same can be said for Trinnieberg.

parsixfarms 11-06-2012 08:15 AM

Best: Mike Smith on Royal Delta.

Worst: Mike Smith on Atigun.

blackthroatedwind 11-06-2012 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 900716)
If Little Mike doesn't win that we are all questioning why he wasn't taken to the lead. The same can be said for Trinnieberg.

This doesn't make a lot of sense.

Travis Stone 11-06-2012 09:08 AM

I actually thought Brian Hernandez's ride on Fort Larned was one of the best rides of the weekend. I know... it's easy to go to the lead and see what happens but I thought he did a lot of things right.

First off, the front was the place to be and he went there. Second, he maintained a comfortable advantage throughout and as they neared the far turn, he committed to the race. I think way too many jocks try and sit cute on their horse until the top of the stretch, at which point every other horse is back in the race and the front-end advantage is lost. He also could have easily worried about going too fast and tried to rate the horse (see Merit Man), but instead went on with it and won the whole thing.

MaTH716 11-06-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone (Post 900725)
I actually thought Brian Hernandez's ride on Fort Larned was one of the best rides of the weekend. I know... it's easy to go to the lead and see what happens but I thought he did a lot of things right.

First off, the front was the place to be and he went there. Second, he maintained a comfortable advantage throughout and as they neared the far turn, he committed to the race. I think way too many jocks try and sit cute on their horse until the top of the stretch, at which point every other horse is back in the race and the front-end advantage is lost. He also could have easily worried about going too fast and tried to rate the horse (see Merit Man), but instead went on with it and won the whole thing.

But couldn't you say that his job got a lot easier when Game On Dude didn't make the front?

Travis Stone 11-06-2012 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716 (Post 900726)
But couldn't you say that his job got a lot easier when Game On Dude didn't make the front?

Sure, but that's horse racing. He also could have done what many riders do, particularly in NY as of late, and yank back and turn every race into a turf-like affair.

jms62 11-06-2012 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 900724)
This doesn't make a lot of sense.

Really? Makes perfect sense to me. Little Mike loses and people on this board are bitching about him not being taken to the lead since All his previous victories came while on the lead.

hoovesupsideyourhead 11-06-2012 09:22 AM

best friday Christophe Lemaire flotila

worst friday husbands spring venture

sat nakatani tapizar

worst angel serpa speak logistics


worst honorable mention p val

Coach Pants 11-06-2012 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead (Post 900733)
best friday Christophe Lemaire flotila

worst friday husbands spring venture

sat nakatani tapizar

worst angel serpa speak logistics


worst honorable mention p val

The ride on Flotilla was a thing of beauty.

robfla 11-06-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone (Post 900725)
I actually thought Brian Hernandez's ride on Fort Larned was one of the best rides of the weekend. I know... it's easy to go to the lead and see what happens but I thought he did a lot of things right.

First off, the front was the place to be and he went there. Second, he maintained a comfortable advantage throughout and as they neared the far turn, he committed to the race. I think way too many jocks try and sit cute on their horse until the top of the stretch, at which point every other horse is back in the race and the front-end advantage is lost. He also could have easily worried about going too fast and tried to rate the horse (see Merit Man), but instead went on with it and won the whole thing.


I may be imagining this, but it looked to me that at about the 1/8 pole - when MMM looked like he was going to run right by Fort Larned, Hernandez cocked the horse's head to the right to show Fort Larned the other horse coming to him. Fort Larned took off again. Maybe the horse was trying to lug out.. I don't know...I thought that was a great move if I'm correct.

Coach Pants 11-06-2012 09:55 AM

Hernandez Jr. had a great ride on Fort Larned. Never in a million years would I predict that he would win any Breeders Cup race...much less the classic.

Rosie Napravnik won too. Furthering the fact that you could put a trained monkey on a horse and they could win a Grade 1. Just comes down to not making mistakes and that is random as can be with these athletes.

JimmyEllis 11-06-2012 09:59 AM

Velazquez had sat an inside trip almost the entire race. If he stays inside, he runs down Little Mike.

blackthroatedwind 11-06-2012 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyEllis (Post 900744)
Velazquez had sat an inside trip almost the entire race. If he stays inside, he runs down Little Mike.

Actually, if he got outside of Little Mike sooner, he would have won. He would have been second best, but he would have won nonetheless.

Alabama Stakes 11-06-2012 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyEllis (Post 900744)
Velazquez had sat an inside trip almost the entire race. If he stays inside, he runs down Little Mike.


it was that slight little delay when he was gonna try to beat him up the rail, before he switched out. that absolutely cost him the race. he would have rolled by.

Mike Smith on Atigun caused the most universal screaming of people all over the country saying in harmony "what the **** is he doing ? what makes it worse is that they ran away a little at first almost as if to say just sit there ya mook. But no, he was determined to **** it up. Would love to know one thing. WHY ? Why would you just not sit there in perfect position? What were you possibly thinking?

I'm not a bad ride complainer either.

Conrad 11-06-2012 10:34 AM

Btw the 4f and 6f Fort Larned simply ran the whole field into the ground except for MMM...a 23.6 quarter put em all under stress down the backside.
Nice job by Hernandez to take advantage of his position and further pressure the field.
Had he slowed it down and tried to conserve Larned's energy he may have let the whole field back into the race. Then he's got 3 or 4 bearing down on him instead of just MMM

cakes44 11-06-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms (Post 900717)
Best: Mike Smith on Royal Delta.

Worst: Mike Smith on Atigun.

I guess I don't know what was so great about Smith's ride on Royal Delta. He was on clearly the best horse in the race, so he gunned her so he could keep her out of trouble at all costs. Would Smith have taken back if Questing actually ran? I don't know, but I doubt it(see Bodemeister in KD).

JimmyEllis 11-06-2012 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes (Post 900751)
it was that slight little delay when he was gonna try to beat him up the rail, before he switched out. that absolutely cost him the race. he would have rolled by.

No delay, according to the headon. He was continually whipping with the right hand, with plenty of room on the inside. He then decided to stop whipping, take a hold, come around, then go back to whipping. Sure, he wins if he comes out a lot earlier; but he also wins if he just continues riding.

parsixfarms 11-06-2012 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44 (Post 900774)
I guess I don't know what was so great about Smith's ride on Royal Delta. He was on clearly the best horse in the race, so he gunned her so he could keep her out of trouble at all costs. Would Smith have taken back if Questing actually ran? I don't know, but I doubt it(see Bodemeister in KD).

He was on the best horse in the race and rode her like it. Too often, it seems like the rider on the best horse clutches and grabs, and then goes three or four wide to "stay out of trouble." By riding her aggressively, he also put Royal Delta on what was arguably the best part of the track.

blackthroatedwind 11-06-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyEllis (Post 900783)
No delay, according to the headon. He was continually whipping with the right hand, with plenty of room on the inside. He then decided to stop whipping, take a hold, come around, then go back to whipping. Sure, he wins if he comes out a lot earlier; but he also wins if he just continues riding.

That's because Johnny is a great rider and knew he wasn't moving forward inside, or passing Little Mike there, and angled him outside where he would gain. The only problem was he couldn't angle out in time. Regardless, overall he got a great trip, and was second best. Even if he had angled out sooner, and won, he wouldn't have run the best race.

banter 11-06-2012 01:46 PM

Castellano gave a standout ride in the Filly & Mare Turf, keeping The Fugue and William Buick pinned on the rail and then timing Ventura's final burst of speed just right.

Ryan Moore on George Vancouver showed a lot of grit splitting horses like he did. Kudos.

Bad rides included Valenzuela on Merit Man, Talamo on Jaycito, and Bejarano on all but Animal Kingdom. Valenzuela's ride had to be the worst.

PatCummings 11-06-2012 02:45 PM

How about the consistency of Little Mike's performance?

Here are the gaps between the slowest and fastest six 1/4-mile sectionals run by each horse in the race:

Little Mike - 0.98
Point of Entry - 2.12
St. Nicholas Abbey - 1.98
Trailblazer - 1.46
Shareta - 2.23
Kindergarden Kid - 2.09
Cogito - 2.38
Slim Shadey - 2.08
Dullahan - 1.86
Treasure Beach - 1.62
Optimizer - 1.70
Turbo Compressor - 2.43

The gap between Little Mike's fastest and slowest quarter miles was less than a second (his second quarter was fastest and his fourth quarter was slowest). Overall, his sectionals were...

24.00
23.14
24.07
24.12
24.10
23.20

At no point during the race did any two consecutive 1/4 mile segments ever accumulate to being the fastest in the race. He got a great ride, and you can truly say Ramon rationed his speed as well as anyone possibly could. This horse has cost me at least $5, maybe $10k this year, but I have overwhelming respect for him.

GPK 11-06-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by banter (Post 900807)
Castellano gave a standout ride in the Filly & Mare Turf, keeping The Fugue and William Buick pinned on the rail and then timing Ventura's final burst of speed just right.

Ryan Moore on George Vancouver showed a lot of grit splitting horses like he did. Kudos.

Bad rides included Valenzuela on Merit Man, Talamo on Jaycito, and Bejarano on all but Animal Kingdom. Valenzuela's ride had to be the worst.

Yea, Ventura ran a monster race to win.:rolleyes:

Alabama Stakes 11-06-2012 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 900794)
That's because Johnny is a great rider and knew he wasn't moving forward inside, or passing Little Mike there, and angled him outside where he would gain. The only problem was he couldn't angle out in time. Regardless, overall he got a great trip, and was second best. Even if he had angled out sooner, and won, he wouldn't have run the best race.


didn't angle out in time, not couldn't.....and might not have run the best race, but would have run the winning race. watch it again. Hesitation kills.




shake the hand, that shook the hand, of P.T. Barnum, and the Shah of Iran.

citycat 11-06-2012 09:15 PM

Bejarano has the top two worst rides,,,,Animal Kingdom and Game On Dude

Cannon Shell 11-06-2012 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citycat (Post 900888)
Bejarano has the top two worst rides,,,,Animal Kingdom and Game On Dude

What did Bejerano do wrong on Animal Kingdom?

http://www.breederscup.com/results/2012/mile

Point out what he should have done please?

hoovesupsideyourhead 11-07-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 900895)
What did Bejerano do wrong on Animal Kingdom?

http://www.breederscup.com/results/2012/mile

Point out what he should have done please?

jumped on wise dan ?

citycat 11-07-2012 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 900895)
What did Bejerano do wrong on Animal Kingdom?

http://www.breederscup.com/results/2012/mile

Point out what he should have done please?

IMO, Animal Kingdom wanted to run at the 3/8 pole but Bejerano still kept him tight on the rail. Tight on the rail too long I believe. Also he waited too long to split the horses in the stretch.

blackthroatedwind 11-07-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citycat (Post 900988)
IMO, Animal Kingdom wanted to run at the 3/8 pole but Bejerano still kept him tight on the rail. Tight on the rail too long I believe. Also he waited too long to split the horses in the stretch.

He waited too long?

He had no room.

Seattleallstar 11-07-2012 01:53 PM

pval on merit was horrible, bejarano on exec, and nakatani or unbridled

best ride has got to be ramon on little mike, how that piece of **** won against that classy field is beyond me, 2nd best ride is gomez on beholder

jms62 11-07-2012 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar (Post 901011)
pval on merit was horrible, bejarano on exec, and nakatani or unbridled

best ride has got to be ramon on little mike, how that piece of **** won against that classy field is beyond me, 2nd best ride is gomez on beholder

How can you say Little Mike is a piece of ****. He is a gutsy horse.

hoovesupsideyourhead 11-07-2012 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 901025)
Little Mike is anything but a piece of ****. He is a gutsy horse.

the arlington m is a really a 7500 claimer at hawthorne.....:rolleyes:


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