Lasix enhances performance
 

http://therail.blogs.nytimes.com/201...inarians-view/

"Lasix alkalinizes horses, creating a competitive metabolic advantage similar to milkshaking, rendering the drug Lasix a clear and present doping agent. Human athletic regulators have deemed Lasix a doping agent, and horseracing regulators will eventually have to come to that appropriate conclusion. Lasix has significant potential to alter and enhance racehorse performance."

A vet wrote this.

My late friend had a serious heart problem. He took Lasix. It benefitted his health.

Did he race for money with people betting on him? How is that remotely relevant?

Interesting...

If you take a horse off of Lasix in California that has been racing on it,you cannot put it back on Lasix for 6 months. That is a fact. That doesnt mean you cannot race a horse on La'Arganine and Premerin which are 2 medicines given at 2 different times, one at 36 hours and the other at 24 hours.
Oh by the way you also gamble on horses that have been given Vetalog shot and DMSO jugs and or had their hocks injected and you dont know about it. They might have been given a pack of Azium to dry up a slight cough at 48 hrs and you wouldnt know about that either. Also could have had the gallop person jump on the horse in the stall prior to being led over to the paddock to "wake" one up, you wouldnt know that either.

I'm sure there is lots of stuff I don't know. It doesn't mean I shouldn't know this, silly argument.

Let me ask you, can you point me to the PPs of a few of these California horses where they are listed as not having Lasix for 6 months?

Both are mammals..Believe it or not, it's more relavant than you think...maybe look the drug up (all of you ) and read about it yourself...might answer a lot of your questions

A Pharmacist (me) wrote this..

You're giving Vol Jack a bad name.

I don't have questions about the drug.

Anybody who enters this debate and doesn't know the basic facts on what Lasix is, how it works, dosage regimes, onset & duration of action, half life...all this stuff is available FREE on the internet and it wouldn't hurt anyone ( including me to refresh my knowledge ) or someone totally unfamiliar with this drug or any other drug...to know what we're talking about, first and foremost..

Most people know most drugs are tested on Mice/Rats or other animals before human testing begins....Are we Mice/Rats (no jokes here please)....

Lasix is a very crude, "old fashioned" diuretic that's been around a looooonnngg time and the facts of what it is AND more importantly what it ISN'T are free to anyone with a minimal amount of ambition to look up and learn about it.....then we can talk about it

Please don't take this as an insult....I'm just trying to point anyone interested in the right direction...the CORRECT info is out there and easy to research. Google "lasix" and you're off......

It's really not doing anyone any good if their points of arguments are "something their Uncle Vinnie told them" or something they saw on "House"

Dude, we've been down this road many times recently and I've read plenty. My only argument against it is that it is a performance enhancer. I've seen it with my own eyes, now a vet is saying the same exact thing. He isn't the first one either. So, being a performance enhancer forces other horses to use the drug so they are on a level playing field.

[quote=cmorioles;863992]Dude, we've been down this road many times recently and I've read plenty. My only argument against it is that it is a performance enhancer. I've seen it with my own eyes, now a vet is saying the same exact thing. He isn't the first one either. So, being a performance enhancer forces other horses to use the drug so they are on a level playing field.[/QUOTe

Define "Performance enhancer"

[quote=clambeau;863995]Read the article.

[quote=cmorioles;863997]I want YOU to define what a "performance enhancer" is...please

Easy, gives one using it an advantage over one not using it.

Like Horseshoes...or water

If you want to know you do the research....Im just telling you what the rule is and the reason I know was because I asked Dr Blea. The reason for my question is because there is a horse in our barn that was being considered not to run on Lasix.

You are doing it again Orioles.

Remember my Zenyatta fan analogy.

Ah, the world's expert is here.....There goes the neighborhood

This coming from a pharmacist that suffers from over confidence in their knowledge based on having too much education.

You do realize you keep missing the point that Orioles has been making about Lasix, right?

The point being that lasix imparts an edge to racehorses that has nothing to do with stopping bleeding into the lungs.

That was a nice dodge on your part, pointing out that humans and horses are both mammals! Freaking brilliant!!!

I am utterly wowed by your inability to comprehend a very basic concept. Or, maybe comprehend is the wrong term. Perhaps you wanted to show off your 'expertise' here by announcing that you are a pharmacist, and the only way you could do that was by chiming in with a total non sequitur.

Now go look up the meaning of non sequitur with your beloved Google search engine.

Yes, those are too, but they aren't drugs. You may as well add food if you want to be an a$shole about it.

What about other unfair things, like oxygen, sunlight, good breeding, being faster than your opponents, being able to dance, being sound, etc?

Nobody was arguing the rule, just that it is not only keeping information from horseplayers, it is outright deceptive.

He and others don't want to see the point.

Yes. They have too much emotionally invested in their belief systems to listen to anything that challenges, or threatens, said belief system.

Good to see you IC.....hope the world is treating you well.

A couple of small points, you already know, I thought might add to what's been said above....

1) Lasix is a sulfur containing diuretic far more similar to Bumex, which is another sulfur containing loop diuretic, than Premarin which is a conjugated estrogen or hormone commonly used in gynecology to limit menstral bleeding by a whole different mechanism. I guess the common thread is the limiting of bleeding to avoid the dreaded 3rd time bleed and a horses forced retirement.

Lasix first works by a) increasing the capacitance of any lung or making more small pipes or cappilaries while holding the same amount of blood in pulmonary circulation, thus lowering pressure in the horse's or human's lungs.

If given IV these effects take place in 20 minutes and last for six hours hence the name. The second effect or b) is to abolish the electrical/osmotic gradient in the kidney cell or nephron responsible for holding on to free water when inhibited a triggering of a fairly massive diuresis of very dilute urine will follow.

It blows my mind that the CHRB compares Lasix to premarin by substitution without making the public aware as Premarin is no where near as effective as a diuretic ..........very very bizarre!!

The metabolic alkalosis it causes does give a horse an advantage racing in that it takes longer and further in a race for a lasix horse to become acidotic or uncomfortable in competition which is another way of saying for it to develop a lactic acidosis because for some period it is neutralizing the acid generated in competition. Further considerations pertaining to aerobic or anaerobic metabolism add more or less to the mechanism above......phew!!

Hey man, it's been awhile. Haven't seen you around here much lately.

You are one of the only doctors I've ever known (albeit online in this case) that doesn't have an overly inflated sense of self-importance.

I just happen to know I am a horses ass, the rest haven't gotten the memo just yet.....

They didn't teach that in med/vet school, I'm guessing.

Humility and the ability to listen are neglected as well.

This vet is the equilivant of Rush Limbaugh commenting on politics.

I don't think this is true. No one I asked about this has ever heard of this being the case in CA or anywhere else.

I'm still trying to understand how something that is available to all participants creates a situation where someone has an advantage?

That is exactly the problem.

No, the problem would be if only some had access.

Yeah, I'd much rather listen to the self appointed DT vet that posts here.

Seriously? It is really simple. Horses that don't need a drug are forced to use it because if they don't they are at a disadvantage. You consider that fair? I've heard it all now.

I don't believe Kelly Kip ever used that because they didn't want to. Or Devil His Due.

What exactly is "unfair" about it? Unfair to who? The horses?

If lasix helps prevent or lessen the severity of a bleeding incident and we have no idea when a bleeding incident will occur than how exactly do you know what horses don't need it?

http://www.equibase.com/static/entry...EQB.html#RACE2
Someone tell the trainers of the horses w/o Lasix about performance enhancement.

I just don't find forcing an owner to spend money to drug a horse that doesn't need it to be on a level playing field with the other horses fair. Crazy, I know. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll never believe that many horses need Lasix when the rest of the world doesn't use it. Also, our country did just fine without it for the better part of a century.

At least you aren't arguing that Lasix isn't a performance enhancer any longer.

YYaaawnnnnnnn !!!!! Your entire argument is flawed and totally ridiculous. Stop whining already. Your are absolutely 100% incorrect about virtually everything you have said on this topic.