Dynaformer Gone...
 

Three Chimneys announced about an hour ago.:(
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...7301049&type=1

It is sad news even though we knew he was ill.

I've just learned on Facebook that Dynaformer was a great race horse ... and one person even called him "a sire of sires"

Yeah, he never won a Grade 1 stakes race in 30 career starts and was in the 50/1 to 99/1 odds range in top class New York Handicap races.

Very good sire though. Massive overachiever in that regard. I suppose the fact that he sired Barbaro suddenly made him 10 lengths more race horse than he ever actually was in his unexceptional racing career.

Very sad news. He contributed alot to the breed through the excellence of his progeny. RIP, old guy. Condolences to his human family and TC.

Absent from the Dynaformer acknowledgements is recognition of the vision of Nathan Fox to see his potential and make him into a sire.

Same here. I just sat down for the first time today, came right here and saw this.

Crap.:(

You're pretty much giving recognition for something that was mostly all luck and chance.

Just to read Nathan Fox tell the story himself was pretty amusing. He bought the horse for $700,000 to stand stud.

A complete roll of the dice on a $3,500 stud fee stallion...and why?


You can't assign credit (if successful) or blame (if unsuccessful) on moves like this unless you have monsterously large sample sizes.

I just saw a guy walk up and bet $500 on a 12 (30/1 prop and bad bet overall) ... the next two rolls were both 12. I had a former neighbor win a million dollars on a $20 scratch-off ticket. His vision really wasn't any better than either of those two.

Ultimately -- if you're going to make moves like he did -- you need a Sham-Wow Guy type quality to you ... because salesmanship and luck are the king factors of success...if you have even one of those qualites you'll probably do outstanding in that line of work.

I was just reading Pace Advantage and a poster Theskalos called Dynaformer "the greatest sire of all-time"

Look, I'm a big Perfect Drift fan...but he and Barbaro are clear-cut the two best horses he ever sired.

If anyone is curious -- here are the ROI of Dynaformer offspring:

2011: 85-for-650 (13% wins) $1.30 ROI
2010: 94-for-710 (13% wins) $1.12 ROI
2009: 106-for-788 (13% wins) $1.21 ROI
2008: 97-for-765 (13% wins) $1.40 ROI
2007: 102-for-829 (12% wins) $1.30 ROI

His offspring have produced losses at atleast double the takeout rate in each of the last five years (as far back as my data goes) -- and with sample sizes of atleast 650 races each year.

I'm not sure what the more absurd comment is... calling him the greatest stallion ever or calling him specifically a great racehorse as numerous people now have in threads on Facebook.

Here is Dynaformer's career record in Grade 1 stakes as a race horse:

1988 Wood Memorial: 7th place finish
1988 Travers Stakes: 5th place finish
1988 Pegasus Handicap: 5th place finish
1989 San Fernando Stakes: 6th place finish
1989 Charles H Strub: 5th place finish
1989 Gulfstream Park Handicap: 6th place finish
1989 Bowling Green Handicap: 8th place finish
1989 Suburban Handicap: 9th place finish

In eight career starts at the Grade 1 stakes level -- Dynaformer never once finished better than 5th. That's not a racing record consistant with that of a great race horse.

The best horse in his crop was Risen Star -- Risen Star was 11-8-2-1 lifetime... he won the Preakness, won the Belmont by 15 lengths running the 2nd fastest time in the history of the race, was a troubled 3rd breaking from post position #1 in the Kentucky Derby ... like Dynaformer, he was out of a His Majesty mare.

If you took a poll asking people who the better race horse was -- Dynaformer or Risen Star -- I'd certainly bet the outcome of the poll would say Dynaformer and probably by a wide margin.

greatest sire of all time.

wow, that's simply amazing.

Steve I know it's Derby Week but maybe you can have someone on tomorrow for like a 10 minute segment on Dynaformer?

Tough week

Dynaformer and Eddie Razo Jr. die this week.

RIP to both.

Nice tribute held for the late jockey at Hawthorn today.
http://newssun.suntimes.com/news/121...d-in-fire.html

10-minutes hopefully to basically celebrate that he was a very mean horse and his sperm greatly exceeded inital expectations.

I sort of have trouble understanding how Paris Hilton has been one of the most famous people alive over the last decade ... but in her case you have a sex tape and I've atleast seen her naked, I've seen her giving knoggin, and I've stayed in her parents hotels.

Dynaformer's not exactly famous because he ran 9th at 100/1 odds behind Dancing Spree in the '89 Suburban Handicap. Really, it's mostly all about Barbaro.

Someone commented on DRF, "no doubt one of the greatest stallions ever."

Move over Northern Dancer.

Calzone, all valid points, but jeez man. Quit hatin. It's almost like you took a tour at Three Chimneys, the horse bit you and you're still bitter about it. Just say "RIP" and leave it at that.

No Luv anymore for Critical Eye? You loved that filly so much I thought you were going to try to steal her.

Not so sure Risen Star was the best horse in that crop.

Ya know, something DrugS and I discussed once was which dude in your avatar photo is you?

I said the guy on the left of the photo (on the left, looking at the photo) is you, he said the other.

Which is it?

hehe... not to side-track/hi-jack the thread, but I'm on the left. The guy on the right is Jason Kay from Jamiroquai. I don't know why I never changed my avatar, but it was the thrill of a lifetime to get my pic snapped with him... eventhough they're a one-hit wonder here. Jamiroquai is best known for this-
http://youtu.be/jMPTXAc9aJ0
And also providing the song for this famous scene-
http://youtu.be/kr7djGY1fhA

Sad news indeed..............he was a solid stamina sire..........RIP

It's easier to do this when your mind isn't being raped with nonsense.

At least a half dozen people who friended me have started threads like this:





Some of the comments are absurd.

You've got a poster on PA who takes a handicapping approach calling him the greatest sire ever. Kasept's too good of a guy -- he might as well have credited a guy who hit a lottery ticket for his outstanding vision.

And for the record, Mr. P. May Jr. -- Indian Charlie gets his jollies to your avatar photo.

"Knoggin" :tro::o:)

I seem to recall things a little differently.

I agree with what you're saying, I'm just saying that it almost seems you have a personal vendetta against the horse lol.

And as for my avatar- it could be worse, I could have a Dynaformer avatar I suppose ;p

I haven't seen scavs in awhile, but I'd much prefer a Dynaformer avatar of any type to a scavs avatar with Big Brown.

I never bet a race that Dynaformer was involved in. I've been a fan of a few of his offspring. I have no vendetta against him.

Try to judge everything with as much detachment as possible from everything but facts.

I don't have an axe to grind with Man O' War and I don't have a personal bias to Discovery (a horse I knew almost nothing about a few years ago) ... a detachment from BS and love of facts might make it appear that way though.

Are there other cases of sires having that kind of luck (or overachieving from a breeding standpoint based on their mediocrity when they raced?)after not being very good on the track?

Someone told me that Danzig was unraced? True?

Danzig was 3-for-3 on the track -- never raced against stakes company. Fragile, unproven, but talented horse and obviously a great sire.

And yes, of course there have been plenty of excellent stallions who weren't much as race horses. They appear through all time peroids of racing history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIXV-mHds5w

Distorted Humor was a pretty nice racehorse, but he's far exceeded expectations as a stallion.

Yukon was unraced and produced some pretty useful runners. He was exceptionally well bred however, and clearly was going to get at least a chance at stud.

West Acre was unraced and has been a nice stallion.

City Zip has far exceeded expectations, despite his impressive race career.

Malibu Moon only had two starts, but in my eyes at that time, he was freakishly good.

Unusual Heat.

There are plenty more, but Dynaformer would seem to be more extreme than most others.

As you mentioned, Unusual Heat was a claimer. Saint Ballado has developed into an elite sire -- he wasn't much as a race horse. Horses from his crop like Pistols and Roses and Technology had their way with him in 3yo stakes races where he ran mid-pack.

You go back through history -- some of the better sires were initally pulling a cart through a street, working as teasers, or basically just rose from neglect and obscurity by accident.

The stallion Virgil was initally a cart horse pulling a wagon -- basically a car in the days before the automobile. He was called into service as a makeshift stallion once the farms main stallion fell ill suddently -- and a gelded son of his from his first crop named Vagrant won the Kentucky Derby.

All of a sudden, Virgil was given a fair chance and he responded by siring many great horses like Kentucky Derby winners Hindoo and Ben Ali -- as well as the legendary 2yo Tremont and many other top ones like Vigil and Vera Cruz. He basically went from buggy horse -- to siring Ky Derby winners and great 2yo's left and right.

A lot of other great stallions were basically just sprinters.

Saint Ballado had, at least in my eyes, a very promising beginning to his career as a racehorse. If I recall, he was rushed prematurely into the Derby and just never was the same.

Plus, he was an exceptionally bred horse, being a full to two total freaks, Glorious Song (dam of Rahy) and Devil's Bag.

I thought his potential as a stallion was very high.

His full bro Devil's Bag was 12 lengths more race horse -- and 12 lengths less sire.

Yeah.

However, Devil's Bag was one of the most brilliantly gifted race horses of the last 30 years, so there is no shame in it.

I saw SB run back then, he was a very nice horse.