Jones on HDG and weight
 

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...som?source=rss


For owner Rick Porter and trainer Larry Jones, Plan A is to run Horse of the Year Havre de Grace in the $500,000 Apple Blossom Handicap (gr. I) April 13. However, the connections have also made one thing clear: They will only do so under the right weight conditions.



“Look, we know we’re going to have to carry more weight than most horses in the country. We understand that. But I’m also not fixing to give a multiple grade I winner a lot of weight just because we have an Eclipse Award that was done off of votes and doesn’t take into account what happened on the racetrack.:rolleyes: I’m not going to spot a lot of weight to a horse that has as many grade Is as we have.
“We could look at the Oaklawn Handicap, but then again, it’s a handicap too. So if we don’t like the weight we’re carrying against the boys we don’t have to run her at all. We always have other options.”

Boy, does this sound familiar...............and tiresome.

It's a shame that people with that sort of character are dictating how the game is run. I liked it better when he had that faux retirement.

This is almost certainly Rick Porter shoving Jones in front of the question. WTF? The filly drags Larry's 185 pound cowboy azz around in the mornings... you telling us 126-130 is going to burden her? Ridiculous. If they weren't prepared to face the handicap that comes with what she accomplished, then they shouldn't have come back.

:tro:

I agree with part of this. The fact that owners and trainers cry over what really isn't a lot of weight is sad and disappointing. You have 2yo fillies carrying more weight in maiden races than the reigning HOY carried in her seasonal debut. That's stupid. In days past, this weight thing wouldn't be an issue. She's get what she deserved and run where they planned. But in today's game, it's different. There is so much competition between the tracks to get the star horses that you are able to hold out from a spot if you don't like what you are given because you know some other racing sec will give you what you want.

There's also another issue at play here where I sort of agree with Porter and Jones. I don't know if the issue is necessarily how much HDG would get but rather how much she'd have to give to the others. I think if they were all carrying 140, we wouldn't be hearing about the issue. But since we still do handicap racing here, the spread will continue to be the issue. Say HDG and Royal Delta met up. I think we'd hear the same complaints from them whether the weights were 110-106 or 140-136. I do understand where they are coming from with this. To most people, they'll look at it and say that four pounds doesn't make a difference. They might be right. Would six pounds make a difference? What about 10 or 20 pounds? The point I'm trying to make is that at some point, it does make a difference and I don't think that it hits all of a sudden (ie, four pounds no difference but five pounds equals a length). I wish they'd end handicap racing period and just run them all as weight for age/sex stakes.

If you wanna be an all-time great, you're gonna hafta carry the weight.

I'm willing to bet she doesn't make it past the summer.

if you want people to think you have the best horse, you campaign her like she's the best. they still have their panties in a wad because she lost to proud spell. they're more focused on that then the fact she got HOY, and don't want it to happen again-which is absurd.
she hasn't got a big stud deal to screw up.

my very first thought when i read the article was oh, don't be a pu***. if you're going to bitch and moan all year, just retire her and spare us the drama.

The comments are so hilarious it makes it sound as though they don't believe she deserved Horse of the Year.

I just hope the Obeah is under allowance conditions.

Sigh.

It's such a burden having a reigning HOY.

You people have no idea.

If you look at Dream Supreme's final two races you can make a case that her assigned weight was the reason she lost.

In the Ballerina(G1) she visibly tired in the stretch, giving 9 pounds to the winner Shine Again, and finishing 3rd, 2 L back.
http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbP...try=USA&race=9

Her final race, 2 months later in the First Flight(G2), saw her giving 5 pounds to winner Shine Again in a 2nd place finish by a head.
http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbP...try=USA&race=8

those damned voters. how dare they create such a mess?!

they are hilarious. obviously they're fishing for low weights.

the sad part-it'll work. then if she has another good year, they'll turn around and politic for a repeat as HOY without having earned it.

Campaigning the "best" like the best went out the window a few years ago...oh nevermind, don't want to rehash that old argument. Fans want to see champions run, but a 10 race campaign like Cigar ran less than 20 years ago is no longer the way the game is played.

yeah, i know it. it just blows my mind that they're still sore over HDG losing to proud spell-yeah, that one pound made all the difference. :rolleyes: it's just a shame.
we need more owners like martha gerry, who owned forego. ah, wouldn't that be so nice?

Blind Luck?

We need more horses like her.

yeah, her too! i thought it was the wrong name, but didn't feel like checking. :D

I came here to whine about this situation, but looks like y'all got this started all on it without me. ;) I don't like veiled threats. Heck they're not that veiled. It'd serve them right to get what she deserves to carry. That begs the question, what should that be? And what should Plum Pretty get?

How ironic of them saying they will only run if the weights are "fair" which actually means they will only run if the weights are unfair to the competition.

Now trainers have always complained about weights but rarely has anyone made statements like these with a horse as accomplished as this. They just wont run her and will wait for another handicap race in May? What if those weights dont suit her either? Just train up to the Breeders Cup? It is an embarrassment and more proof that racing at the top end is a shell of itself. Porter and Jones want the tracks to bend over backwards to give them an unfair advantage yet when the end of the year rolls around will be praising their horse like she is one of the all time greats.

The grading system does more harm to racing than anything. Jones acting as though every grade 1 race/winner should be treated equally is stupid.

:wf

I like in the article how Bob Baffert got Jones all riled up by saying that Plum Pretty will get 10lbs from Havre De Grace in the Apple Blossom.

Jones then goes on to say that the next option, the Ogden Phipps (also a handicap), will be some race with Awesome Maria and Awesome Feather also pointing for it.

Does he think that he won't be giving weight to those two horses (neither with more than 2 Grade 1 wins)?

BTW is probably correct with the Obeah being the next start. The Molly Pitcher will probably be the follow-up.

Nail on the head with this comment!! Amen.

Why bother having handicaps? I hope Oaklawn assigns her a proper weight. They won't, but I can hope. She will run and probably win and be proclaimed the best horse in training. I wish she didn't get HOTY. Her connections didn't deserve it.

Did she really deserve it? I dont think so, not at all. She was not the best horse I saw run last year.

There's really no point in bemoaning the comments many trainers and owners, perhaps with the intent of influencing weight assignments, make in the public media. Putting on pressure through the media is de rigueur in this day and age. Whatever his motivations, Jones is just using the tools that are available to effectuate the goal of his client -- to create the best possible conditions in which to win. With the state of racing as it is, and the high level of comptetition among tracks for publicity, it's a buyer's market for an owner with a big horse. Gone are the days when horses the likes of Dr. Fager seemingly shrugged off high weights and ran to victory anyway (although I can't believe that John Nerud liked the weight assignments any better back then than Larry Jones likes them now).

Zenyatta wasn't eligible for her morning pasture romps.

She wasn't??!?! :eek: :zz: There goes my faith in the Eclipse Awards.

They passed. :mad:

where did you see the announcement? not on bhorse or drf.

Has Bobby Frankel been reincarnated????

Just said on TVG: Next race for Havre is the LaTroienne at CD

Charles Cella must be hating Fair Grounds right now.

I'd love to hear Jones' gripe with the weights for the Apple Blossom.

The spread is going to be the same in the La Troienne. She will have to carry 123 lbs, missing the 3 lb allowance by one day (she won the Beldame on Oct. 1, you get 3 lbs if you haven't won a Grade 1 since Sep. 30).

In fact, if Awesome Maria skips the Apple Blossom, too (likely as she just ran 3/31), she will get more weight if she reappears in the La Troienne.

But I suppose it's the mighty Plum Pretty that Jones is really worried about. A filly who hasn't been in the same zip code as the winner in any Grade 1 starts since her desperate Kentucky Oaks victory over a first condition horse. Or perhaps it's the 4 lbs given to It's Tricky that has him calling the audible. She's never won a Grade 1 race around two turns.

the fox hill farm FB rant... one for the ages
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fox-H...49399288440985

Larry and I really wanted to defend our title in the Apple Blossom. We were expecting fair weights and when they were released today, Larry called me and we were flabbergasted at the weights. Plum Pretty was the most unexpected but a lot of them were very unfair. Tiz Miz Sue was getting 8 pounds after just running over a hundred beyer and winning the graded Azeri Stakes. Absinthe Minded was getting 9. No one can say that we have ducked any one in racing. Hard Spun took on every tough race there was as did Round Pond and the immortal Eight Belles. We love the competition. Havre de Grace took on Blind Luck six times and ran against the boys in the prestigious Woodward and we didn't bat an eye at running in the granddaddy of them all, the Classic. We have decided one thing though, we will take on any horse and take our defeats when we get them but we won't let the racing secretaries decide who is going to win the races. That is why we took this stand on the Apple Blossom. The weights are unfair and I have asked all the journalists to demand that Pope explain how he came up with the numbers for the weights. He owes it to the fans that were going to pack the house for the Apple Blossom. He just didn't invent these weights, his duty as racing secretary is to analyse each horse and their races and come up with fair weights. Since he had to do it, he should make it public so we can see his thinking and reasoning. I hope he takes on his responsibility. We will run in The La Troienne at Churchill Downs on May 4th. This is exactly what I said we would do if Pope came out with unfair weights. I hope you all understand. We have decisions to make in running a racing operation and today was one of those tough ones.

What a p*ssy. Race the horse, for crying out loud.

He blames pope? The weights are far from unfair. I would rather he just retire her and spare us this bs the rest of the year.

Isn't Pat Pope the racing secretary at Delaware too?

I do not think that word means what he thinks it means.

CLASSIC !!!!!!!!!!!



Porter should be embarassed by publishing such a ridiculous diatribe.