Point Given
 

Just read his stud fee was jumped from $7500 to 20k.

Isn't Coil his only useful runner going lately?

That is an odd thing for his fee to jump up that much.

Sure looks like his usefulness is diminishing. Only 2 millionaires in his career.


By Current Year Earnings
Name Earnings
Coil $755,200
Pointless Love $74,190
Passion Point $68,040
True to a Point $62,750
Fly Angel Fly $55,910
Cartier Lady $52,535
Lookn Even Finer $51,599
Primary Notice $48,120
Duchess of Doom $41,997
Ashes To Glory (GB) $37,361

If he is a hall of famer...Gio Ponti has to be, right?

How can you even begin to compare the 2? Point GIven was a dominate 3yr old over a pretty good crop. Gio Ponti is an admirable, but not that good turf horse. He is consistent, but has some serious distance limitations. He has faced years of bad american turf horses as well.

What distance? 6 furlongs or 2 1/2 miles?

Just the way Ramon handles him going 10f and up tells me they are not sure he can get those distances. They have to run him in those races though, where else can they run? Not to mention he runs second a lot.

Point Given was a monster 3yo and dominated a deep and talented 3yo divison. He had a tremendously impressive Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep in his final 4 starts.

Gio Ponti was a good, consistant, healthy top class American turf horse for a couple of years. Built a very nice resume in our turf races -- but turf racing is an afterthought in this country.

I think I just said this, pretty much word for word.

I scroll-wheel past your posts without reading them.

First - I question the credentials of many of the horses Point Given defeated in his wins (against some small fields). Wins might've been impressive, but shouldn't you at least face open competition before you're crowned a HoFer, barring a Triple Crown sweep?

Second - because he did it on turf, it doesn't count as much?

Gio Ponti is everything we don't have enough of in this sport...wins over five seasons, always showed up (never beaten more than 4 lengths in his 17 losses, 2.5 lengths or less in 16 of them)...

Yet, you just answered his post.

We both know thats not true, at all. If your going to try to insult me be more original. We both know your capable. BTW hows your brother?

When I first started posting here as PointGiven I was told that 2 lengths in a turf race is a ton. A lot different from 2 lengths in a dirt race. Multiple members said that.

He faced very good 3yo competiton -- races like the Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers are among the most prized of the Grade 1's by owners.

How many horses have completed such a sweep?

You can't fault him for getting hurt before having a chance to face older males... but sure, it's a hole in his resume.


Turf racing is an afterthought here. Most of the good turf sires aren't here -- our good horses often aren't even tried on turf until they've flopped on dirt. We breed and race primarily for dirt.



His case would have been helped had he beat Court Vision the other day.

Maybe a hall of fame for hangers who stay healthy?

Congratulations on a great memory...

I thought the 7 G1 wins, and 7 G1 seconds ringed a bit truer to his performances, but maybe you didn't remember those like you remember being scolded. He made 17 of his final 18 starts in G1 company. Can't say that about ANY other horse, dirt, turf, synth...

As if it matters now, he's two absolutely atrocious rides from Ramon away from being the all-time money winner.

I know his resume Pat. I said hes admirable and consistent, thats where it stops for me. He was never brillant, and he was always facing not much. Cape Blanco beats his easily twice, easily. Anytime he faced a read horse Gio Ponti was running second.

In his prime -- he did somehow beat Ventura by a nose at level weights going a mile when Ventura was a huge favorite and going good.

The Ventura upset was probably his finest performance.

That was in Cali. I remember that. She was around 6-5 and I think he was 3-1. Not a huge upset.

GP should be in the hall of fame for making you 7500 at my expense!

Well, more like 6k adjusted, but still.

I forget how lucky you can be sometimes.

Back to the original point of this thread. Why was PG jumped up from 7500 to 20k?

I have no clue about the jump. Could it be just from Coil taking the Haskell?

Had he got a perfect trip in that $10 million purse race -- how do you know he would have passed that Gloria De Campeo horse that won? He hangs.

Gloria De Campeo was 2nd by like 12 lengths to Well Armed the prior year... on good old dirt.

Forgetting the contest --- I probably have made more than 6K just backwheeling Gio Ponti. He's kind of a favorite horse of mine.

He was 5-to-1 and Ventura was 4-to-5.

I've done this before but here goes...

Crafty CT
I Love Silver
Palmiero
Cherokee Kim
Jamaican Rum
Bank Street
Indy Lead
Skip to the Stone
Silvertongue Fox
Gold Trader
Millennium Wind
Golden Ticket
Holiday Thunder
The Goo
AP Valentine
Congaree
Dollar Bill
Griffinite
Monarchos
Marciano
Bay Eagle
Percy Hope
Richly Blended
Mr. John
Invisible Ink
Buckle Down Ben
Thunder Blitz
Balto Star
Dr Greenfield
Touch Tone
Hero's Tribute
Burning Roma
E Dubai
Free of Love
Scorpion
Volponi
Hadrian's Wall
Harrisand

Quite the group. He was the best 3YO that year, but immortalized as one of the best all time, having faced them only at 3 (I included some of his 2YO competition too)...no thanks. I'll give you Congaree, Monarchos (just because of the Derby), Balto Star (for later turf success), and Volponi (for a race) as competition he faced when he won that would be considered "very good."

If turf racing is eschewed in this country for speed, fine, that's our own fault - but there are few horses racing in this decade that have been more successful and more consistent than Gio Ponti - consistency and success commensurate with a Hall of Fame, perhaps even one from an older era.

Poorly judged pace in 2010 and worse, in 2011...when the winning move is being made outside of Ramon down the backside and he is strangling his horse back off a 53.4 half mile.

I think the strangle hold is a product of Ramon doubting he can get 10f. Feeling he has to time that move just right.

big red hoss
 

point given would have won the triple crown if not for Gary Stevens rushing him up into that blistering pace. he drowned most fields he faced and looked like he wasn't even trying while doing it.

Turf racing is eschewed because dirt racing is far more important.

Who is the last Horse of the Year to ever once run in American turf race? I think Charismatic in 1999... and he only tried turf as a last resort before they ran him for a claiming tag.

Royal Delta has turf in her pedigree -- think she's worth over $8 million if Mott tires to make a turf horse out of her? She hasn't even tried turf. A lot of the good ones never try turf.

Cant seem to find an article on that? Can you tell me where you read that?

http://www.drf.com/news/three-chimne...stud-fee-20000

I wonder what the thinking behind the fee raise is. Does Three Chimneys expect everyone else to blindly follow this unidentified, private investor's lead? Or are they simply trying to eliminate the lower-end mares he typically gets?

Other question is, what fee does the private investor have to pay? If I brought 20+ quality mares to an inexpensive stallion like Point Given, I certainly wouldn't expect the farm to ask me to pay nearly 3 times his stud fee in response.

Of course, you also have Kitten's Joy's stud fee doubled. Now Ken Ramsey can own all the Kitten's Joys out there. Banned's success for Glen Hill must have really got on his nerves. I hope he runs out of family members soon so that those horses can get some proper names.

Curlin

The dam of Banned, Cardinalli, in foal to Kitten's Joy, was an RNA at $395K at FT-November. Incredible, given her rather spotty produce record (2007 foal died and she was not pregnant in 2009 or 2011).

I don't get it either. I fail to see how a private investor's interest in the horse in 2012 is going to help someone breeding to Point Given in 2012, unless he is not only going to breed to the stallion but also support the stallion when his offspring hit the sales ring (like the Sheikh does with the Darley stallions). Still, it'd be a reach.

I read a different article and that article did not mention this private guy.

At least now there is a glimmer of sense to it.

Thanks a ton for the link. I have been tryin to get one of my mares to him but Three Chimneys will hardly ever work off the book price. Kinda turned me off on them but I still wanted to get a cover from him. No way I am touchin for 20K

thanks again