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Thunder Gulch 07-27-2011 10:28 AM

Frankel
 
Good grief this horse is something special. I sure hope he comes to Churchill. Will be quite a sight to see Goldlikova going for #4 as a decided underdog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeUB8...ature=youtu.be

somerfrost 07-27-2011 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch (Post 795151)
Good grief this horse is something special. I sure hope he comes to Churchill. Will be quite a sight to see Goldlikova going for #4 as a decided underdog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeUB8...ature=youtu.be

I think he erased a lot of doubts today....truly the best horse in training.

ateamstupid 07-27-2011 10:40 AM

That was scary good. Wonder why Canford Cliffs drifted out so badly though.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 10:45 AM

People on Facebook are busting nuts over this race like it was some performance of a lifetime...

On face value, he walked on a laughably uncontested lead while rating kindly in a 4 horse field - and poured it on late as his main rival was getting out badly - struggling and inable to keep straight.

I hope the time was remarkable - because if it wasn't - this is one seriously over-hyped performance.

Seattleallstar 07-27-2011 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795154)
People on Facebook are busting nuts over this race like it was some performance of a lifetime...

On face value, he walked on a laughably uncontested lead while rating kindly in a 4 horse field - and poured it on late as his main rival was getting out badly - struggling and inable to keep straight.

I hope the time was remarkable - because if it wasn't - this is one seriously over-hyped performance.

I dont know what race you were watching, but Frankel just defeated one of the best horses in the world as if the horse were standing still. Did it impressively and with ease. I dont know how beating the formerly best horse in the world an overhyped performance. What the hell were you looking for, for Frankel to sprout wings in deep stretch and fly?

Thunder Gulch 07-27-2011 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid (Post 795153)
That was scary good. Wonder why Canford Cliffs drifted out so badly though.

That was troubling. When he started going way out, I thought he would get passed by the other horse inside, but at least he finished to get 2nd. Wouldn't surprise me if something comes back wrong with him, but that doesn't take anything away from the winner.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar (Post 795156)
I dont know what race you were watching,

A 4-horse race - where the winner is trotting comfortably on a 3-length lead after a quarter mile.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar (Post 795156)
but Frankel just defeated one of the best horses in the world as if the horse were standing still.

That horse wasn't standing still - he was going sideways.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar (Post 795156)
I dont know how beating the formerly best horse in the world an overhyped performance.

The winner was easily odds-on in the betting. And people are calling him everything from the best 3yo ever to the best horse in their lifetime.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar (Post 795156)
What the hell were you looking for, for Frankel to sprout wings in deep stretch and fly?

Obviously he ran a great race. He had the race served up to him on a platter and he hit it out of the park. 2nd place looked like he had some issues.

Seattleallstar 07-27-2011 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795159)
A 4-horse race - where the winner is trotting comfortably on a 3-length lead after a quarter mile.





That horse wasn't standing still - he was going sideways.




The winner was easily odds-on in the betting. And people are calling him everything from the best 3yo ever to the best horse in their lifetime.




Obviously he ran a great race. He had the race served up to him on a platter and he hit it out of the park. 2nd place looked like he had some issues.


maybe the best 3yr old in Europe, you cant compare the 3y old here and over there until they compete on the same surface, and same race

philcski 07-27-2011 11:49 AM

I love his action. Powerful and efficient. He's definitely something special

smuthg 07-27-2011 11:57 AM

this was posted on Twitter... take it for what it is worth.

Frankel technical proof . Last 4 furlongs - 11.16, 10.13, 11.46 and last furlong12.03. 10.13 ! Crikey thats 42 mph.

Arletta 07-27-2011 12:02 PM

Wow!

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg (Post 795167)
this was posted on Twitter... take it for what it is worth.

Frankel technical proof . Last 4 furlongs - 11.16, 10.13, 11.46 and last furlong12.03. 10.13 ! Crikey thats 42 mph.

That fraction was probably down-hill.

It will be cool to see the charts for that day later when I get more time to study them.

tjfla 07-27-2011 12:35 PM

According to DRF,his connections said the BC is unlikely

Travis Stone 07-27-2011 12:39 PM

Regardless, it was a much better ride this time.

DaTruth 07-27-2011 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjfla (Post 795175)
According to DRF,his connections said the BC is unlikely

That is a shame. I wanted to see how he would finish after sitting off a fast Mile pace.

Sightseek 07-27-2011 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795173)
That fraction was probably down-hill.

It will be cool to see the charts for that day later when I get more time to study them.

Sounds like the ugly girls of Erie, PA will have to wait to find paradise.

Coach Pants 07-27-2011 01:41 PM

I shed a tear watching that...because I'm full of estrogen.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek (Post 795195)
Sounds like the ugly girls of Erie, PA will have to wait to find paradise.

If only for 10 or 15 minutes or so.

Riot 07-27-2011 02:18 PM

Fantastic, powerful performance. Got chills watching it. Thanks for posting it.

Indian Charlie 07-27-2011 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795154)
People on Facebook are busting nuts over this race like it was some performance of a lifetime...

On face value, he walked on a laughably uncontested lead while rating kindly in a 4 horse field - and poured it on late as his main rival was getting out badly - struggling and inable to keep straight.

I hope the time was remarkable - because if it wasn't - this is one seriously over-hyped performance.

I could not possibly agree more. Will the runnerup even run again?

That race was awfully similar in the way it was run to the Timely Writer earlier this year.

Except the one really good horse in this race (besides the winner) ended up on the outer rail.

OTM Al 07-27-2011 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795154)
People on Facebook are busting nuts over this race like it was some performance of a lifetime...

On face value, he walked on a laughably uncontested lead while rating kindly in a 4 horse field - and poured it on late as his main rival was getting out badly - struggling and inable to keep straight.

I hope the time was remarkable - because if it wasn't - this is one seriously over-hyped performance.

Final time 1:37.47. It looked a lot better than it really was. If those fractions that are listed are true then the first half mile was run in a glacial 52 and change. I totally agree with you on this one. Analysis dead on.

Indian Charlie 07-27-2011 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg (Post 795167)
this was posted on Twitter... take it for what it is worth.

Frankel technical proof . Last 4 furlongs - 11.16, 10.13, 11.46 and last furlong12.03. 10.13 ! Crikey thats 42 mph.

Last half mile 44.78?

The runnerup went what then? 45.5ish, while bearing out badly?

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 03:31 PM

People are saying watching the race brought them to tears on Facebook.

Every year, there is a new Euro 3-year-old who's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Most of the time - they hold that reputation, too.

Patrick333 07-27-2011 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost (Post 795152)
I think he erased a lot of doubts today....truly the best horse in training.

You could be right. He might be the best horse in training. My only disappointment was that it was a four horse field. If he had won as impressively with a six or seven horse field then I probably would be thinking he was the best horse in training.

Thunder Gulch 07-27-2011 04:10 PM

Timeform gives him a 142 rating. That's historically big for those guys.

His rating after the Sussex is now 142 and has him behind only Sea-Bird (145), Brigadier Gerard (144) and Tudor Minstrel (144) in Timeform history.

Arletta 07-27-2011 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch (Post 795268)
Timeform gives him a 142 rating. That's historically big for those guys.

His rating after the Sussex is now 142 and has him behind only Sea-Bird (145), Brigadier Gerard (144) and Tudor Minstrel (144) in Timeform history.

:tro::tro::tro::tro:

Riot 07-27-2011 04:54 PM

Just enjoy the horse, even if this particular race wasn't spectacular time-wise. I know there are some people here who are less about the horse, and more about the numbers. That's how they interpret things. Not visually, but numerically. Fine, but try to shift over to just enjoy this gifted horse and his performance.

Three furlongs out, Frankel was 1-2 ahead of Canfield Cliffs, who was just about all out to try and simply keep up with Frankel just cruising along, pulling on his jock with those huge steady strides. Look at the difference in stride turnover. That's where this horse won the race, by the 2 furlong to go mark.

This horse reminds me of Secretariat when he runs. Huge strides, big bodied, tremendously strong, machine-like strides, the jock couldn't half pull him up at the end, and the horse wasn't even blowing. An amazing horse.

I think Canfield Cliffs just drifted under the jocks weight as he was tired and trying his heart out. He didn't change leads and looking at his stride (right hind) he just seemed all in. This horse ran his heart out, too, and he's a darn good horse.

Mawhip 07-27-2011 05:02 PM

Anyone who didn't think Frankel's performance was devestating doesn't know anything about racing. He destroyed a horse that had just won somethingl ike five consecutive G1 races at a mile. Cansfield Cliffs put a whipping on the great Goldikova in his previous start. Everyone knows time is meanlingless in Europe. I ask anyone to name a better miler than Frankel in the last 30 years.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot (Post 795285)
I know there are some people here who are less about the horse, and more about the numbers. That's how they interpret things. Not visually, but numerically. Fine, but try to shift over to just enjoy this gifted horse and his performance.

I thought the time was supposed to be spectacular - hence the high timeform.

The performance was a glorified workout.

Riot 07-27-2011 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795293)
I thought the time was supposed to be spectacular - hence the high timeform.

The performance was a glorified workout.

I find it hard to use time in European racing, as I do in America, the way the races are run can differ markedly, and this race literally walked the first furlong while they sorted it out.

I got chills watching that horse run that race, the sheer power and ability. One of the best horses I've seen in years. After the race is over, as they go over the car tracks and Frankel switches leads - he puts his head down and looks ready to sprint another 3 and take on all comers.

You didn't enjoy it? Okay.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795291)
Anyone who didn't think Frankel's performance was devestating doesn't know anything about racing.

People who actually bet know a dream trip when they see one.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795291)
He destroyed a horse that had just won somethingl ike five consecutive G1 races at a mile.

Great - that horse went from the rail to almost the outside fence in about a furlong.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795291)
Cansfield Cliffs put a whipping on the great Goldikova in his previous start.

Big deal. This wasn't his last race.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795291)
Everyone knows time is meanlingless in Europe.

Wait - now you're some kind of expert on European racing, too?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795291)
I ask anyone to name a better miler than Frankel in the last 30 years.

I ask anyone to link me to a MaWhip post in the last 30 years - that's worth reading.

Mawhip 07-27-2011 05:28 PM

I don't know if I'm an expert in European Racing but I'm certain I know 1000x more than you know about it.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795298)
I don't know if I'm an expert in European Racing but I'm certain I know 1000x more than you know about it.

You say this based upon your vast knowledge gained from writing checks and talking to important people?

Tears.

PatCummings 07-27-2011 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795291)
Cansfield Cliffs put a whipping on the great Goldikova in his previous start.

Canford Cliffs beat Goldikova by 3/4 of a length...and FWIW, Peslier was a pound over. Hardly a whipping. Cape Blanco comes back to run well, then wins a G1 in America.

Now onto more topics, and in defense of Calzone Lord...

I can sit back and, with absolutely no worry, enjoy that performance and the race itself. It was a beauty...............

But I am completely, overwhelmingly, UNWILLING to hand out superlatives like the rest of the 21st century yahoos who, in this 24-7 media world, always need to find some degree of how one particular entity (horse, race, ride...in racing parlance, or anything else in the world of sport) is a crowning achievement, the best of the best, etc. Hell, five hours after the call was made, SportsCenter was anointing that home plate play in the 19th inning of the Pirates/Braves game as possibly the worst call EVER! EVER!!!!!!! That's a lot of flippin history of dunce umpiring, not to mention this call was made at 2am.

When I see comments from people that they were crying about this win (as I saw on Facebook), and that some thought they'd never see anything like it again when Goldikova won 3 BC Miles, and suddenly, seven months later they are spewing forth with another round of superlatives for a horse whose career has spanned eight races in 11 months.

Henry Cecil has the right to call Frankel the best horse he's ever laid eyes on, presuming (he's trained many champions, and he has that right) you expect him to know his own stock. But in terms of the rest of us hacks, trying to put perspective on a performance...how about we all use the best modifier for lending perspective...TIME.

Let TIME go by before we declare some of these horses, through eight freakin races, truly great, the best of all time, the supreme champion.

You know why we have to wait? Cause the jolly criers are going to be all aflutter when the next amazing horse of a lifetime crops up next year, or this year, or hasn't debuted yet, or two years from now, etc, etc, etc. A year ago, no one ever heard of Frankel the horse...TIME will tell, and pardon me if happiness in my racing mind isn't sated with another overwhelming superlative. I'll enjoy it for what it was, but reserve personal judgment and superlatives for the passage of time and more experience. It's sensible, rational, and just makes the most damn sense. Those lobbing the ridiculous praise...I'll keep shaking my head and paying no attention to them.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatCummings (Post 795301)
When I see comments from people that they were crying about this win (as I saw on Facebook),

I cry whenever I read a Molly Jo Rosen status update.

Worse - was the great A. A. R. O. N. --- H. E. S. Z. asking if he was the greatest Euro 3yo of all-time and babbling on and on about his "turn of foot"

Mawhip 07-27-2011 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795299)
You say this based upon your vast knowledge gained from writing checks and talking to important people?

Tears.

I thought you excused yourself from this board or has your self-imposed ban ended already Doug.

King Glorious 07-27-2011 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatCummings (Post 795301)
Canford Cliffs beat Goldikova by 3/4 of a length...and FWIW, Peslier was a pound over. Hardly a whipping. Cape Blanco comes back to run well, then wins a G1 in America.

Now onto more topics, and in defense of Calzone Lord...

I can sit back and, with absolutely no worry, enjoy that performance and the race itself. It was a beauty...............

But I am completely, overwhelmingly, UNWILLING to hand out superlatives like the rest of the 21st century yahoos who, in this 24-7 media world, always need to find some degree of how one particular entity (horse, race, ride...in racing parlance, or anything else in the world of sport) is a crowning achievement, the best of the best, etc. Hell, five hours after the call was made, SportsCenter was anointing that home plate play in the 19th inning of the Pirates/Braves game as possibly the worst call EVER! EVER!!!!!!! That's a lot of flippin history of dunce umpiring, not to mention this call was made at 2am.

When I see comments from people that they were crying about this win (as I saw on Facebook), and that some thought they'd never see anything like it again when Goldikova won 3 BC Miles, and suddenly, seven months later they are spewing forth with another round of superlatives for a horse whose career has spanned eight races in 11 months.

Henry Cecil has the right to call Frankel the best horse he's ever laid eyes on, presuming (he's trained many champions, and he has that right) you expect him to know his own stock. But in terms of the rest of us hacks, trying to put perspective on a performance...how about we all use the best modifier for lending perspective...TIME.

Let TIME go by before we declare some of these horses, through eight freakin races, truly great, the best of all time, the supreme champion.

You know why we have to wait? Cause the jolly criers are going to be all aflutter when the next amazing horse of a lifetime crops up next year, or this year, or hasn't debuted yet, or two years from now, etc, etc, etc. A year ago, no one ever heard of Frankel the horse...TIME will tell, and pardon me if happiness in my racing mind isn't sated with another overwhelming superlative. I'll enjoy it for what it was, but reserve personal judgment and superlatives for the passage of time and more experience. It's sensible, rational, and just makes the most damn sense. Those lobbing the ridiculous praise...I'll keep shaking my head and paying no attention to them.

I understand what you are saying and for the most part, I agree with you. But sometimes, something becomes so obviously clear that time is not needed and anyone that's got some experience in watching things can know what they've seen. I go back to Lammtarra in 1994-95. He only raced four times in his career but after winning a 7f maiden race as a 2yo in October, he didn't return again until the Epsom Derby and won that while setting a course record. Then he won the King George and finished it off with the Arc. Any horse that can do that is a great horse. I don't care if it was only four races.

If I watch Kyrie Irving come out this year and average 35 points and 14 assists and see him hanging triple-doubles in Rose and Williams and Rondo, he could retire after one year and I'd know that he had all-time great talent.

I am not saying that Frankel should or shouldn't be annointed now. Personally, I think he's made his way into the conversation of best horses I've seen since I started watching races in 1986 but I couldn't argue with anyone that doesn't think he deserves that just yet.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mawhip (Post 795304)
I thought you excused yourself from this board or has your self-imposed ban ended already Doug.

Even though I kind of hate you and stuff -- can we have a beer sometime?

If for no other reason - It might make me feel important by-proxy.

Mawhip 07-27-2011 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord (Post 795306)
Even though I kind of hate you and stuff -- can we have a beer sometime?

If for no other reason - It might make me feel important by-proxy.

I don't think so.

Calzone Lord 07-27-2011 07:35 PM

Excuse me, I must go weep quietly in a darkened room....


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