TVG
 

They are showing quarter horses races from AJAX Downs - and someone named Ramon Dominguez was on a 3/5 shot in the 1st race (run a few seconds ago)

They show his picture in the post parade as the jockey. Horse won despite drifting out badly with an obviously different Ramon Dominguez almost falling off.

Sh!t thread? You bet. But it's not like there's anything better to talk about right now.

How about the most overrated horses of the last 11 years?

1. Bernardini
2. Rachel Alexandra

These 2 lead the overrated pack by a mile (or 8 furlongs if you prefer).

No, they don't.

He's a very big fan of Zenyatta and Smarty Jones.

And just how was Rachel Alexandra overrated?

you've got to be kidding. that list contains two of the best horses we've seen in some time. bernardini was a top 3 yo colt, it took invasor to beat him. as for rachel, her 3 yo season was phenomenal.

Fairmount has an excellent card this afternoon, maybe we can get Alan to report on any gate malfunctions.

I think Bern was certainly overrated.

I'm not saying he sucked, mind you, but the hype on him was overboard.

Yes, but the immortal Barbaro, and his one good dirt race, wasn't.

She was merely very fortunate she didn't run into that buzzsaw Pioneerof The Nile when he was on top of his game.

She caughly him on the downslide.

I'm pretty sure Pioneerof the Nile won the Triple Crown.

My take:

Top 5 overrated since 2000

1) Zenyatta (no-brainer here)
2) Lost in the Fog (clearly held top spot until 2 strong years of Z-nation pushed her over the top)
3) Bernardini (very talented and a productive 3yo....but people talked about him as if he had actually beaten somebody).
4) Pepper's Pride (People talked about her. Some even liked her. She didn't deserve any of it.)
5) Smarty Jones (I was a fan too....but people got carried away).

Top 5 underrated since 2000

1) Invasor - Undisputedly better than others who have received way more hype and praise.
2) Birdstone - The 2004 Belmont wasn't just some bizarre fluke. On a dry surface he was a good colt.
3) Medaglia Doro - Tended to come in second in the "big" races....but aren't the Travers, Whitney, Donn etc, also pretty big races?
4) Perfect Drift - Became an internet punch line late in his career, but he was a very good 4yo who continued to be competitive at the top level for the next 2-3 years.
5) English Channel - It will probably be awhile before another American turf horse puts together a 3-year run of that quality. Despite GPK's best efforts....I still think he's underrated.

His turf races all sucked too.

I do take issue with that statement.

For a 2-year-old, they were absolutely great 2yo turf performances.

Before anyone can attempt lists like miraja2's ... you'd need to first outline and define some things.

For instance, would 'most overrated' mean most overrated at a certain point in their racing career - or 'most overrated' for a career as a whole?

And - most overrated by who? Overrated by pretty horsey tards and slapdick handicappers on the Internet? Or, overrated by solid and respect worthy racing people like Jon White, who just don't have the most complete set of handicaping skills out there? Or, overrated by the most skilled type of players who simply should have known better?

A cool and rare case was Xtra Heat - who was massively overrated through the first half of her 3yo season - but she developed into a sprinting beast in the second half of her 3yo season and had a sensational career for a female sprinter.

I thought Mineshaft was overated during his horse of the year season. He loved Belmont winning the Suburban, Woodward, and Jockey Club Gold Cup. He beat alot of horses that had less than stellar records. Although Evening Attire and Volponi were quality horses. I think he retired sound after Jockey Club and chose not to run in BC Classic.

There is all truth to what you say other than what is in bold - but - imagine Mineshaft in the handicap division climate of the last few years?

He would have been Cigar v2.0 - and with Neil Howard training him no less.

I always thought Artie Schiller was a bit overrated, though I doubt many agree with me here. Nobiz like Shobiz also comes to mind.

For a top US based turf horse (via Brazil anyway) - Leroydesanimueax - or however the fucl< you spell it - was underrated. He was a beast...albeit with Frankel's aid.

i agree on both, but nobiz, i think everyone finally woke up on that one.

Le roi...it mean the king.

I don't think it is fair to compare Nobiz to Artie. Artie had a much better and deeper career. He was a solid miler.

Fu Peg after the Derby?

Talk about hysteria for a horse who just won with a flawless trip, an unspectacular figure, and good ole Impeachment not all that far behind in 3rd at the wire.

And he wasn't even undefeated like a Smarty Jones, Barbaro, or Big Brown coming in. He had the mystique of an undefeated horse - without the actual undefeated record.

high fly

His Jerome was pretty impressive.

Denis of Cork was, for a very brief period, quite possibly the most overrated horse on the planet.

I'm sure there are about 703 recent Euros who might fit in this conversation.

And she would not be one of them....

Was the only one to make up significant ground in that 2008 Derby.

The majority of Euros fit it, but especially, ANY horse trained by Aidan O'Brien. NTamm is on standby ready to toss an encyclopedia of awful stats on his US runners.

I thought of mentioning Dylan Thomas, but my intent was to focus on horses based in the U.S.

Big day for Ramon Dominguez at Canada's AJAX Downs.

3 wins on the card for Ramon, so far he's won the 1st, 5th, and 7th.

http://www.ajaxdowns.com/raceresults.html

Pretty much any Euro (Goldikova excepted) who's made their way to the USA for the Breeders Cup the last five or so years has been overrated.

Except Vale of York. He was special.

Is that why the few who come kick our asses in all the turf and synthetic races almost everytime? And many times - a few of the best don't come.

Harbinger - the Candy Ride of European racing from last year I suppose - would have killed any true American based turf horse I've ever seen at 12 furlongs.

I try to throw you a Vale of York bone and this is what I get?

Well, yes, Conduit could also run a little. It's true.

What about when they ran 1-2-3-4 in the 2005 BCT? Or when B-teamers like Red Rocks win two of our most important turf races? Seems like Dylan Thomas is the exception rather than the rule.

The only area where I'd agree with you is the BC Juvy Turf races since they were created. Those Euros almost always get overbet and lose to some mediocre American horse.

Raven's Pass sure showed Tiago.

The ground was a complete bog that day - not that Dylan Thomas wasn't overrated - but he obviously didn't handle it - getting beat like two football fields and finishing behind a few slugs.

Or C-teamers like Dangerous Midge, who came back and was beaten a country mile.