Garden City, Gazelle, & Man O' War
 

Belmont Park - September 9th, 2006 - Race 7
Garden City Breeders' Cup S. - Grade: 1
Estimated Local Post Time: 4:08 PM
Race Type: Stakes
Breed: Thoroughbred
Age Restriction: Three Year Old
Sex: Fillies
Purse: $250,000
Distance:One And One Eighth Miles
Surface: Inner turf
Post Horse Name Age Sex Weight Jockey Name
1 Chaibia (IRE) 3 Filly 118 Dominique Boeuf
2 May Night (FL) 3 Filly 116 Michael J. Luzzi
3 Delmarva (KY) 3 Filly 116 Javier Castellano
4 La Mottie (GB) 3 Filly 116 Corey S. Nakatani
5 Jade Queen (KY) 3 Filly 116 John R. Velazquez
6 Maxxi Arte (IRE) 3 Filly 116 Kent J. Desormeaux
7 Magnificent Song (KY) 3 Filly 118 Garrett K. Gomez
8 Carriage Trail (KY) 3 Filly 116 Edgar S. Prado
9 Take the Ribbon (KY) 3 Filly 116 Julien R. Leparoux
10 Quite a Bride (FL) 3 Filly 118 Cornelio H. Velasquez
11 In Return (KY) 3 Filly 116 Richard Migliore


Belmont Park - September 9th, 2006 - Race 8
Gazelle S. - Grade: 1
Estimated Local Post Time: 4:40 PM
Race Type: Stakes
Breed: Thoroughbred
Age Restriction: Three Year Old
Sex: Fillies
Purse: $250,000
Distance:One And One Eighth Miles
Surface: Dirt
Post Horse Name Age Sex Weight Jockey Name
1 Unbridled Belle (KY) 3 Filly 115 Garrett K. Gomez
2 Bushfire (FL) 3 Filly 122 Edgar S. Prado
3 Last Romance (KY) 3 Filly 115 John R. Velazquez
4 Teammate (KY) 3 Filly 119 Cornelio H. Velasquez
5 Pine Island (KY) 3 Filly 122 Javier Castellano
6 Wild Fit (FL) 3 Filly 119 Julien R. Leparoux


Belmont Park - September 9th, 2006 - Race 9
Man o' War S. - Grade: 1
Estimated Local Post Time: 5:12 PM
Race Type: Stakes
Breed: Thoroughbred
Age Restriction: Three Year Old and Upward
Purse: $500,000
Distance:One And Three Eighth Miles
Surface: Inner turf
Post Horse Name Age Sex Weight Jockey Name
1 Crown Point (KY) 4 Colt 126 Javier Castellano
2 Go Deputy (KY) 6 Horse 126 John R. Velazquez
3 Showing Up (KY) 3 Colt 121 Cornelio H. Velasquez
4 Cosmonaut (KY) 4 Colt 126 Julien R. Leparoux
5 Ramazutti (MD) 4 Colt 126 Christopher P. DeCarlo
6 Cacique (IRE) 5 Horse 126 Edgar S. Prado
7 Relaxed Gesture (IRE) 5 Horse 126 Corey S. Nakatani

Those are some pretty decent fields! Little small for the fillies race, but we got the best two in my opinion; Pine Island and Bushfire. Showing Up takes on his elders, can't wait to see this. Good luck to Magnificent Song & May Night, I think the former will have the edge.

Good luck to all!

Nakatani on Relaxed Gesture!?
That's a nice change....
I still think Cacique will be too tough to beat in that spot.
I was just looking forward to taking a couple weeks off of the ponies, but there's some races this weekend that have really piqued my interest.

I'm disappointed Silverfoot isnt in this race. He hates Saratoga and ran to it in the Sword Dancer. Prior to that he was in pretty good form and I think has a couple nice races at Belmont. I would have taken a flier with him. I see no real value in this race.

Where's English Channel?

Is he retired? I missed about a week, I hope he's not retired...

I've been a Cacique fan all year, I'm not backing off now!

No, they're skipping the race and pointing him to the Turf Classic on JCGC day at Belmont.

English Channel is being rested until the Oct 7th Hirsch. I dont blame Pletcher, its a great move.

Cacique is going to be a very short price in here and in my opinion isnt worth it. But I struggle to find a solid opinion on just 1 other horse. A watch race for me.

Showing Up doesn't interest?

Showing Up? Not at a short price in a race he wont make an easy lead. That was a cakewalk at Arlington, not to say he didnt deserve to win or wasnt tons the best, but he wont have creampuffs like Go Between chasing him this time. I would bet Cacique before I bet him.

I have to like Cacique here. He was held hard(like the rest of em) behind the Tim Man but still finished well. He has shown a liking for the course at Belmont as well. I think he should be ready for a prime effort.
Showing Up has shown talent against his contemporaries, but beating that small field of sub par grade one horses last out and beating grade one older horses are two different things. Edge to Cacique in this corner.

The Garden City is a little lacking in starpower. None of them get my blood racing.

In the Gazelle I think that both faves are vulnerable. Pine is back too quick for my taste off a very hard race, and the other one has been away too long.

I couldnt agree more. The Million is basically a throw out race for me for all who ran. The fractions were so slow that you really dont get a good indication how everyone ran. The closing time for Cacique was impressive in my opinion. I dont think they are going to go that slow in the Man O War. I agree with Gander and Oracle that Cacique gets it done here.

I am not thrilled with the Garden City either.

I think Pine Island rolls in the Gazelle.

creampuffs :D

I dont particularly care for Pine Island's running style and or the way hes been ridden. Havent figured out which yet. Anyways, this kind of style racing on dirt is going to get this horse beat in races she should win at short prices.
Teammate has had a tough time putting 2 in a row together but looms the main speed in here as I dont think Bushfire will try and outgun her, nor do I think Wild Fit is as quick. I give the edge to Teammate.

Any interesting baby races on the undercard?

there are 4 grade 1 winners in there. how can you say there is not one other horse? showing up could be a great horse, very similar to kittens joy, and go deputy was very impressive in his last. personally i think even relaxed gesture could win. this is the best turf race so far this year. i just wished after market was running here and not in delaware.

Just started looking and Saturday's opener is freaking tremendous.. Stakes quality N2X on grass to kick the card off, and there's really NO ONE you can toss.

1st Post Time (1:00)
1 Mile Turf Open 3 Year Olds And Up
Allowance - Purse:$48,000
Post # Horse Jockey Weight Claim Price Equip. Med.
1 El Prado Rob Leparoux J R 120 0 L
2 Kiss the Kid Hill C 118 0 L
3 Ever a Friend Nakatani C S 118 0 L
4 Rebuttal Prado E S 122 0 L
5 Outperformance Castellano J J 118 0 L
6 Real Quality Gomez G K 120 0 FTL
7 Planets Aligned Espinoza J L 120 0 L
8 Crimson Sun Luzzi M J 120 0 Blk-Off L
9 Yankee Master Velasquez C 118 0 L
10 River City Rebel Migliore R 118 0 L
A-Coupled: Real Quality and Crimson Sun

there are 4 grade 1 winners in there. how can you say there is not one other horse?

I didnt say it wasnt lacking in quality. You misread my post. I said I couldnt form a solid opinion on just 1 horse to beat Cacique. You can make a case for every one of them. Its a great race, just not a race I would bet.

my apologies. it just seems like the thread is very pro cacique. personally i would take the winners like showing up and go deputy over a horse that seems to have decided recently he likes to run second. yes i did lose money on him in the million.

Cacique has killed me this year but I got my revenge (and more) when I decided to bet the Tin Man to win in the Arl Mill.

His not winning on Derby Day crushed every live bet I had going at the time and they were huge.

Did he just win his third race back? I wouldn't say the Million race was a matter of him taking a liking to second place. His loss to English Channel following in between those two races was a pretty solid run to.

he is not winning races this year (my wallet knows this) while showing up does nothing but win. i think go deputy has the best shot to beat showing up. his race at saratoga was very nice.

Thats absurd. I can promise you that facing English Channel and The Tin Man is a hell of a lot harder than facing go Between!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You make it sound as if "winning" is all that matters with no consideration to who the horse is winning or losing against. Thats just illogical.
Ok rev, what price do you think Go Between would be in this race? 30-1? Thats who he just beat. Sorry, I have seen Go Between and he sure as hell isn't in the same solar system as English Channel or The Tin Man.

I have had Planets Aligned his last two races. His race on the 29th was wonderful. I think he has a little better competition in this one. But the horse is in great form. I will not be betting this race because it is hard to win 3 in a row. But I love this horse.

Mike dont try to talk him out of it. Just means the odds go up on Cacique, race was made for him.

Good distance good front speed= good stalking trip and a victory

Showing Up does nothing but win because he is clearly better than everyone else. I think there is a difference between a horse who likes running second (Perfect Drift) and a horse who is up against evenly matched foes nearly every race he enters....Cacique.

Yeah well let Cacique take on Go Between and see who is clearly best!!!!
Thats like saying an NBA team who goes 10-62 is not as good as a college team who goes 28-0. College teams don't have to face Kobe Bryant or Shaquille!!!

Why dont we just let this race decide who the better horse is.

Cacique is a horse that seems to have a history of excuses running against the best.

Showing Up has never run a bad race but lost in his only race against top quality (the derby). Other than that hes faced a cast of creampuffs.

i have seen all of these horses and english channel and cacique are not as talented as showing up or after market. that is just my opinion. i like horses that are improving and both showing up and after market are making major improvements each race. they are both running bigger numbers each race. the older horses have not improved at all this year.

both 3yr olds are the two best american turf horses in my opinion, i am just not sure which one is better. i really like after market though and i loved showing ups win at arlington off those fast fractions. the older horses were very entertaining beating each other in their rivalry but none ever proved to be anything special. i do not think any of the older horses could ever compete with the europeans.

I can ssure you both English Channel and Cacique are more talented than After Market.

As for Showing Up, we will know in 48 hours.

Just to be straight, I was saying Showing Up only wins because the opponents in his races are far and away less talented than he is, whereas Cacique is racing against horses who are fairly equal to him and therefor is going to see a few wins and a few losses. Definitely not saying Showing Up is at the level of Cacique, he is getting that test this weekend.

I love the fact that showing up is in this race. Cacique will win and i wont have to lay 3-5.

Watch that money burning RG come in and ruin it for us all. Wouldnt that be hilarious?

Yeah that "impressive" win over the mighty Spider Power in the Hall of fame stakes really sold me that After Market was better than Cacique!!! LOL!!!:rolleyes:

the race will decide little unless one clearly wins. i think go deputy is being left out here. gun to my head i would take showing up and if after market was here i would take after market. the older grass horses in america really are not that good.

your posts are full of hypocrisy. yesterday you were saying in the bellamy road thread he was a great horse, despite never beating one good horse.

the point is who is the most talented. not who has beaten who. showing up and after market have never lost on the turf. the others have. i will go with my knowledge of watching races and will stick with my belief that after market and showing up are better horses. personally i think the best female turf horse is also a 3yr old, wait a while. i think she could easily beat any female turf horse in america. all three of these 3yr olds are exceptional talents.

i think you need to ask Mott his opinion of this horse. when you do you might change your mind. i do not like him running after market at 9f with kip deville and brilliant in there this weekend, but i think after market will love 12f.

cacique has been the money burner this year.

After Market has never run a "big fig". Bellamy ran the fastest triple crown prep race in history. Now thats hypocrisy!!!
When you win by 18, does it really matter whos behind you? When After market runs a huge fig and wins by 18, believe me, I will meet you back here and tell you hes the goods. He ain't the goods.

after market is very good. showing up is better right now and i expect cornelio will choose showing up over after market on saturday and going forward. showing up's figures are just as good as the older turf horses. he might be the best turf horse in america. i know showing up and cacique are the shortest odds of any american horse in the breeders cup turf futures. your big figure from after market might come in delaware on saturday. he has been very green but is putting it together.

Showing up is a very good horse. But it is a huge step up when facing older horses (especially older horses of this caliber). Even though the "improvement factor" is much better for 3 years than older horses the jump up in class is, often times, too difficult for 3 year olds. A good example is Lady Of Venice. She looked good at Churchill and she looked good at Saratoga only losing by a shrinking length. If she ran that same race against horses or her own age, she wins by 5+ lengths.

I dont think this board is pro-cacique and anti-showing up. I think the board is using experience and logic when assessing the two horses. But like Gander said, we will see in 48 hours.