All time best horses
 

Those who know me are aware that I maintain an "all time best top 100" list just to maintain some knowledge of the sport and it's history. Obviously this is a highly subjective undertaking and just one old railbird's opinion. Not to overly bore folks, here is my updated top 20:
(1) Secretariat (1970)...simply the best
(2) Kincsem (1874)...towers above others of her generation
(3) Ribot (1952)...record speaks for itself
(4) Man O War (1917)...wish they hadn't ducked Exterminator
(5) Citation (1945)...defines "Warhorse"
(6) Sea Bird (1962)...Arc wonder
(7) Flying Childers (1715)...first great one
(8) Spectacular Bid (1976)...should have won TC
(9) Count Fleet (1940)...vastly underrated
(10) Native Dancer (1950)...great sire but don't forget races
(11) Zenyatta (2004)...either love her or not
(12) Eclipse (1764)...father of modern day horses
(13) St Simon (1881)
(14) Kelso (1957)
(15) Ruffian ((1972)
(16) War Admiral (1934)
(17) Seattle Slew (1974)
(18) Affirmed (1975)
(19) Colin (1905)
(20) Exterminator (1915)

Face Palm just based on where you have Bid alone.

As I said...Just one guy's opinion.

The Bid at 8???????????? what r u drinking? opinions are fine, but basic knowledge of racing puts him in top 5. IMO he is number 1

As I said, it's easy to be critical...very few folks rate the Bid that high but your opinion is as good as mine. Don't question my knowledge of racing history simply because I disagree with you. The Bid had a wonderful 4yo season and finished 30/26-2-1. Obviously a great horse but same can be said for the 7 I rate above him.

I just don't know how you can rate a horse #2 that raced predominately in Hungary and Austria in the late 1800's. Sure, she was undefeated, but lots of walkovers and weak competition.

Fair question...54/54-0-0, raced all over Europe actually and routinely destroyed males, raced all distances from short sprints to marathon distances, carried over 160 poinds and spotted her male foes 20-30 pounds. Certainly in a class of her own during her career...level of competition is always a question...again. a judgement call.

I understand why you posted this so I will bite. Zenyatta at 11? I am not sure she is the 11th best filly of all time if we are going to include horses from the 1800's. I'm anxious to hear why she is better than Kelso or Dr Fager who doesnt even make the top 20????

A lot easier to make judgement calls on horses that someone in our lifetime may have actually saw.

I think there are a few on this board who saw them all run

There are some people here who haven't seen the field since it left the gate

Kelso was a warhorse, 5 times HOY and a record of 63/39-12-2, Dr Fager (ranked #21 by the way) was 22/18-2-1 (only out of money finish was a DQ from a winning effort). Zenyatta was a nose from being perfect in her career despite being a dead closer, the hardest racing style to compile victories. She can be criticised for level of competition but visually she was tremendous, looking at the great horses of history, the vast majority were stalkers with tactical speed...I personally upgrade her quite a bit because of her running style.

I'm old but not that old...seriously, one must rely on data from others to compile a list such as this, never saw Man O War for that matter but the literature makes it easy to appreciate his greatness.

So she is ranked as the 11th best horse of all time because she was a closer and almost was undefeated? Wouldn't your case have more merit had she taken on the miserable group of older horses in the country more than twice? I understand that it simply an opinion however when you examine her record there are very few really historically signifigant performances.

But her running style was not disadvantaged on the synthetic surfaces in which she compiled her record.

Zenyatta is like Andy Pettitte. Pettitte is the all time winningist playoff pitcher in baseball history. He was a really good pitcher. But no one is calling Andy Pettitte the 11th or 12th best pitcher in history.

What difference does it mak how you run when you run in inferior races? Is what I ultimately would ask.

I think you nailed it when you said "miserable group of older horses", not sure racing against the males those years would really elevate her that much. I put a lot of stock in certain races...the Arc in France, the Triple Crown and the BCC, I have Tiznow at #34 because of his BCC wins (otherwise nothing that special), my lowest rated TC winner is Sir Barton at #51, and his effort was before the TC was even named.

I don't consider the BCC an inferior race.

Using that logic how is Tiznow rated below Zenyatta? Didn't he win the Classic twice? Are her narrow, all out wins over the weak fillies that she faced more impressive?

When you sit down and write down her list of accomplishments and compare to others she is usually dwarfed in achievment. She won a bunch of the same old, synthetic races in CA over and over. The Apple Blossom is NOT big race in this country.

What about the 17 other mostly inferior races?

The funny thing about Zenyatta is that she is stricty an Americn vice. The year end Int'l weights had her at 125 which was 3 pounds less than Quality Road and Blme.

I rank Blame 11th.

Tiznow was 15/8-4-2. Zenyatta ran as hard as she needed to, margain of victory may not be impressive but her races certainly were. In a way, she reminds one of Kincsem who would often spot the field many lengths while grazing as the race began only to run them down at will.

Zenyatta 7 spots in front of Affirmed huh?

The idea that Zenyatta would have posted a record as good as Affirmed did running against Alydar, Spectacular Bid, Exceller, Seattle Slew, Coastal and Sensitive Prince the way Affirmed did strikes me as beyond impossible.

But if we don't look at it that way and just looked at who accomplished more on the racetrack in their career by winning big races etc.....oh wait.....Affirmed should still be WAY ahead of Zenyatta.

True. They both raced against the local farmers' donkeys a bunch of times and people made a big deal out of them emerging victorious.

So what are your other 18 top ranked horses?

Evening Attire is high on my list. He was really, really old for a racehorse and came from behind and still won. That has to mean something.

Raced through 10yo season...69/15-16-9. Certainly a hard knocking one!

:zz:

this list is pure garbage. Please keep pumping money into pari-mutuel pools.

You left off Peppers Pride and Hallowed Dreams.

Again, easy to be critical...lot less work to call someone's efforts garbage than to actually do work yourself and defend your opinions.

I just hope you didnt spend too much effort on this this list.

Zenyatta at 11 basically defends all opinions.

She is the only horse on that list born after 1976, yet you could probably make a list of 100 horses since then 1976 that were better than her. Including Blame, who just beat her a couple months ago.

Zenyatta is better than Easy Goer? Cigar? Ghostzapper? Point Given?

How about just the females since 1976. Go For Wand and Open Mind would have eaten her for lunch. Lady's Secret, Princess Rooney, Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, Silverbulletday, Life's Magic, Heavenly Prize, Serena's Song, Personal Ensign, Bayakoa, Paseana, Inside Information, Azeri....


I wont include Rachel for obvious reasons but the female horses I listed above were just as good or better than Zenyatta since 1976.

Now just think if I listed male horses.

Much better post...I obviously disagree but at least you named names. Since 1976, I have I have 16 horses included in my top 100, some of which you named (Cigar, Point Given, Lady's Secret, Personal Ensign). But it's hard to include others you named against the likes of those on my list. Again, just my opinion but my research has determined that I prefer them to others.

Where is Holy Bull on your list?

#88....just below Dancing Brave (87) and before Parole (89)

You'd have a better shot of defending Ted Bundy than that list.

And Point Given is where on the list? I won't give you a hard time about Zenyatta being 11, because I think even you know how silly it is.

The horse he has rated #7 that was foaled in 1715 - that horse didn't debut until age 6 - only ran six times in his career - and half of his six wins came by walkover.

That list is actually a pretty clever troll job in my opinion.

Yeah well it's easy to be critical.