Is racing doing this right?
 

So - racing fans, bettors, owners, track employees - whomever. What are your opinions on the use of technology in horse racing? I need to know.

Steve has given me the OK to post a link to a survey below. Aside from being deep into Dubai racing and calling a few here and there, I'm also in the final semester of my MBA. This semester, I organized an independent study course "Technology Innovation in Horse Racing."

If you post on this board, trust me, you're qualified. It should take approximately ten minutes to complete. Many thanks in advance!

http://baylor.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_2fsgkjB2oQQUEhm

What are you talking about using "technology" for? and are you thinking of any specific "technology"?

Yes there are specific ideas, and your thoughts on several racing topics are of importance to the survey. The application of technology is very generic, because its uses are so wide. Some of the questions are purposefully vague and open to individual interpretation.

I thought all of the questions were vague and generic, yes. Technology, good or bad? Well, yeah ... it's terrible for some things, great for others. How was I supposed to answer that for you, to be helpful to you? I do hope it turns out to be of some good use to you.

Thanks for helping, trust me, it will work out!

I use Computrak and e-ponies to select my horses:rolleyes:. Would this be a technological example????Did you find anything out about those Dubai take out rates, Pat?????????ps. I did take the survey, glad to be of any help.

We dont even show the vast majority of races in HD. And not only does there seem no desire to change this the supposed tech leaders at CDI want to eliminate their HD signal. That really should say about all you need.

:tro:

BYKTRONICS is the great innovation for handicapping in years.

Just did survey...will you be able to post results once it's complete?

I don't support sympathizers/indirect supporters of terrorism.

I sure can - it'll be a little while, but I will.

Personal attacks are always appreciated. Love you too.

Pat, i just completed the survey. I would love to see the results when you're finished... good luck with your MBA.

Thanks much!

Good questions on the survey................good luck with your project.

Interesting questions. Tough assigning points/percentages to the various issues -- I could have/would have gone way over 100 if it hadn't kept me honest.

Very tough. I started with Integrity getting like 80pts and by the end it was still #1 but down to 40%.. Horse health? If it would have been worded horse safety but horse health? Do I really care if a horse has a cold or a quarter crack?

You do if he or she is yours and is going to miss a race because of it! :p

Exactly its a individual concern not something I would consider an industy wide issue.

I personally thought that drawing new bettors into the sport was the most important issue.

You can't expand a sport on a shiiitty base. Fix the sport and the bettors will come

But what exactly does that mean?

I don't think racing - as to how it relates specifically to fans/bettors only - has much of an actual integrity problem Freddy.

You have a few trainers at every circuit who have an edge and seem to be getting over - but it's no secret who most are. There's not much you can do to stop that beyond drug testing. Some athletes and their trainers are getting over in all the other sports as well.

I don't believe people are betting after the bell. Canceling tickets after the start of the race is harder now than before. I don't see anything really suspicious that looks like possible race fixing ever.

there is too much racing and a lot of crappy races that will never interest gamblers unless the rake was so low that expertise would be worthwhile. No national voice or direction is really something that needs to change.

you just had an imposter horse run at Sunland. I watched a horse go from 3/5 to 5/2 at Philly two weeks ago in 20 seconds as the gate opened. the other 3/1 went to 7/5 and jogged. All this as they were in the gate? The track wouldnt even be there if it wasnt for the casino.

I don't disagree with you Freddy, especially with the lack of a national governing body/voice.

As far as too many races go, yeah you are probably right. In some cases less is definitely more (monmouth being a prime example). But not everybody is looking for the ideal (in terms of good racing and betting) situations to wager. I always think back to when I went to NYC OTB's to watch races and think that many people just want the action and don't care what type of horses and races are going off. They were playing whether there was 3 horses in the gate or 13 and couldn't care if it was a 2k claimer or a 5 million dollar Graded Stake. To limit the amount of tracks/races and actual racing days could also hurt the sport by forcing gamblers to put their money in other betting venues on days where there are very limited places to bet horses. That wouldn't be good for the game either.

When I first started to become a racing fan, it was nearly impossible to watch a race. This hasn't changed much with the exception of Keeneland offering live streaming on their website. Having to pay (either through a cable or dish provider) or set up an online account to see live races is silly -- not to mention that most of us still, or not to long ago, had to have multiple accounts or both TVG and HRTV to get all of the tracks we wanted to see. Why are you going to go through all of those troubles if you are only curious about the sport?

I have spent many an hour at OTB on 38thst, Water st, etc. I think finding compulsive gamblers is something racing will always be good at.

finding new players will come only when the game is interesting

Fair enough Nic but were curious about TC horses and or major stakes quality types or did you want to be tickled by today Turf paradise spectacular?

Because someone got over in one quarter horse race at Sunland shouldn't scare anyone into thinking they might be betting on an imposter favorite.


What's crazy about a lot of those big late odds shifts is that you can almost always see them coming by watching exchange market action at Betfair and Ehorsex - Mountaineer and Philly especially. I'm not sure there is anything dirty about them.

Brings us back to what I think is the biggest problem plauging the game.

A horse racing at a major(pursewise anyway) track went from 3/5 to 5/2 while in the gate and you dont think there was monkey business and chicanery?

I'm not aware of the race you're referring to so I have no idea.

Did the horse break bad? Either an absolute flood of money had to come in on another horse - or a large win bet was canceled from the sounds of it.

Remember 2001 and 2002 - when these huge odds plunges kept happened all over? The Monarchos/Invisible Ink entry took like a couple hundred thousand dollar win bet in the Florida Derby at the last second.

Horse should have been 3/1 based on form. The TVG guys were like how the heck is this horse 3/5 as they were in the gate. As the gate opens the 3/1 should be fav goes to 7/5 and the 3/5 goes to 5/2.. 5/2 never competes 7/5 airs by 6.. pure BS that no serious gambler could ever stomach

And how is this chicanery and monkey business?

You say a horse that should be favored anyway was 3/1 - because another horse was appearing to take unsuspected action.

Once the gates opened the odds merely came to what you feel was reality.

I suppose the BS and complaints would come from gamblers who hoped the 3/1 would hold on a horse they assumed should go off at 7/5?

the pools were total manipulated..You know like used too do..lol

You're talking to someone who watches Mountaineer and Charles Town on Saturday nights.

I did it both on thoroughbreds as a teller when I was 18 - and I still do it everytime I visit a dog track.

It was not uncommon for me to have at least over ten thousand dollars worth of canceled tickets on my cash position at the end of a shift. In fact, I might have had a Joe DiMaggio like streak of it going. No one ever said a single thing about it ... and I doubt it even made much difference in helping me get an edge.

One day - all the machines froze and betting was down for a couple of minutes. I had like a couple thousand dollar win bet on a horse I hated in a race coming up in like 15 minutes. I was about to crap my pants and I went back to the money room to see if I could get the ticket canceled by computer when the machines came back up. I canceled the ticket and never did it again.

No sense taking a risk - when you're not sure an edge is even being created from it.

With dog racing - the strategy is to go up and make four win bets of $50 apiece on the four dogs I like least. This drives down the win odds - I go to a teller with 0 MTP - bet about $70 on quinella and trifecta combos involving the dogs I like... cancel the $200 in win tickets and ask for like a $130 voucher back. Basically - I think it's a good way of getting overlayed quinella and trifecta prices. The odds come back to reality right before the rabbit starts moving.

A simple misdirection of my betting competition in an effort to possibly gain an edge. A fine, upstanding tactic to be sure.