luka$$ fading
 

normally i dont wish bad fortune on people but when it comes to d wayne i wont cry when it comes his way. in a horrible slump at both churchill and arlington and the last few years he hasnt come any near producing hall of fame numbers. hes getting clients on past reputation and success but i suspect it wont last too much longer for this self centered, limelight craving, run em into the ground AHOLE. its way past his time but hes too blind and his ego is too huge to realize that

Agreed, playa. I've disliked the guy since I was about 12, when he made his first impression on me by having a few horses break down that year...sorry to say it, but I'm glad he's on his way out - I know he's good and wins races and yadda yadda, but, to me, how he wins negates the number of times he wins.

some of his moves in his recent years have been beyond mind boggling. a couple locally here in chicago were having ct lang ride all of his stock LMFAO who didnt ride a winner the entire meet that year outta like 50 something tries, another was sending out a half a million dollar purchase in for a 50k mcl tag first out

I will tell you how I ABSOLUTELY LOVE how all his horses take action at Arlington...I have tossed every single one...Has he even hit the board yet here?

This guys has been terrible for the sport for years. The only reason he ever did anything is because he tricked every owner out there into thinking he was the greatest. They would go and buy any horse that he wanted for him. If the horse wasn't looking like a stakes winner right out of the gate, he ignored them. If a horse was good enough for stakes company, he'd run them into ground until they broke down. What did he care, he had more horse waiting in the wings.

He had Charismatic running in a Maiden claimer, because he had already given up on him. His assistants had to convince him to keep the horse. I obvioulsy don't need to mention how many great horses he has killed.

I don't feel on drop of sympathy for this guy. CARMA IS A BITCH!!!!!!!!!

He's having an awful Churchill meet, but you guys must have short memories, last time I checked, he won a Breeders Cup race last year...

What horse has come out of that race? I am just thinking off the top of my head, but not many have come out of it....I agree with you though but that race was kinda weak...

For the record I could be completely wrong about this, I am at work and I can't look it up right now, but I don't think much came out of it

yeah hes in 70's, and hes only trained 27 champions and a ziilion tri corwon races and breeders cup champs. What a clown huh.
Playa you are absolutely brain dead when you bash this guy. You may worship jocks like Antley, but Lukas' commenst were taken completely out of context about him. They got a hold of the whole interview and the guy left out the parts about Luaks praising him as well. Whatever, the guy reinvented training as we know it, shipping to all spots, etc.
Henning, Bradshaw, Barnett, Maker, McLaughlin, Stewart, and Pletcher all went to D Wayne U. Obviously the guy isnt only a trainer but a teacher as well. His lasting impression on this game and in the record books will forever be felt and his legacy will live on through Pletcher and others. The last 12 years have been real hard on the guy. His son was his best friend as well, and had that accident not occurred, his son would be where Todd is. Jeff was one of the best young horsemen who ever graced this earth. Lukas has lived the last 12 years watching this once brilliant guy, his son, go through hell in a reduced state. Hes lost his family, everything, and every day D Wayne must rise and think what if???? Tabsco cat hadnt got loose. AT this stage in his 70's D Wayne would re retired, with jeff running the show while he was an agent. For whatever sins D Wayne committed, hes paid the price, and then some. But I guess because some jock(whose work ethic and private life he questioned, who later DIED OVER DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) was spoken about by him, he should be hated instead of revered as what he is, a brilliant trainer who holds the records. 27 champions, good luck seeing that in our lifetime!!!!

im well aware of his past and his accomplishments but brilliant he is no longer and thats pretty evident. how much money has he flushed away for his owners down the toilet the last 5 years? its not exactly what he said but the timing of it about antley more than anything disgusts me, his personal agenda clearly was laid out then. tell me just what purpose did it serve running TCAS in the derby or his stablemate in the belmont that year, god forbid if d wayne is outta the spotlight for 5 seconds, to him being in the spotlight is more than worth running 1 into the ground

yeah, i had kind of forgot about jeff........ that situation is a tough as it gets.
oracle, can he function on his own???

I don't know Mr Lukas well, only enough to say hello to. When i was younger I botherd Jeff with questions up here at saratoga and he always answered them. This was a brilliant handsome guy with work ethic of his dad.
I always ask him about Jeff when I see him, which isnt often. His horse was in teh next stall to WOnder lady in the Oaks and i asked about Jeff. He said hes frustarted and its hard. In other words hes just smart enough to know how smart he was and what kind of life he had. he cant train or function well enough to work. Anyone who ever knew the guy will tear up when they hear that. No matter how bad any of you think you ever have it, you oughta think about Jeff and consider yourselves lucky.

no one stays on top forever, no athlete, no trainer, no jock, no horse. everyone knows that. why lukas gets singled out is beyond me--altho there is a share of baffert bashers around as well.
lukas hit it big, and stayed big for a while. maybe that has something to do with it. his success speaks for itself. his legacy lives on in the trainers he taught, including pletcher. to dig at a man who is past his prime is ridiculous. it happens to ALL of us, only not all of us have to slide downhill in the public eye.
as for a half million dollar purchase running in a claimer, lots of high price horses do squat. ap indy is an incredible rarity, having earned more in purse money than they spent on him. do you know how seldom that happens?

lukas is arguably one of the BEST trainers of all time. tc wins, eclipses, bc wins. everyone would like to do half as well, that would be quite an accomplishment.

as for antley, he was a POS. timing, shmiming. he ditched an expectant wife, he sure as hell didn't care about timing!! chose drugs over his own soon to be born child. no tears lost for that guy.

Zieg,
these are the same kinda guys who would say Jordan sucks if he laced em up and played an NBA game. I know thats a physical game and training is mostly mental. But his legendary hours and traveling are hard for a guy his age to keep up. Hes in the twilight, no doubt. But the bashing of a legend is hard for me to take. 27 champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's odd, i was never a lukas fan...yet the last couple years i've been forced to defend the guy--as if his accomplishments require defending.

Me too Zieg. I just think the guy who has such high moral ground abot selling info should take a look in the mirror when he writes things like not being upset when bad fortune comes his way. Incredible, do you really think that D wayne considers this bad fortune compared to what happened to Jeff? I'm pretty sure going cold at Arlington and CD really aren't up there in his list of things that have occurred in his life that he considers bad fortune.

So well said!
I have nothing against him other than imho, he wasted some pretty good horses.
I only passed him once, at Belmont, when he was leading back his horse (had just won the 7th) on the walking path when Jim J was leading Thomas John over for the Belmont Stakes...the one where Real Quiet got moved too early by Kent D and Victory Gallop got the head bob.
His barn #3 is well decorated with his accomplishments. And he has certainly educated many.
Two of my favorite "old timers" though are GREAT horse men...H Allen J, and Shug.

DTS

yeah but he talked badly about a ride a jockey who died from drugs (before he did), gave, so he doesnt have a heart. lol

every trainer has lost horses in their career. only some get roasted over a slow fire when it happens to them. just imagine if dwl was the trainer of horatio nelson, rather than obrien!! but if everyone would just think, rather than post off the handle...put yourself in their shoes. who here wishes they were matz after the derby, but wouldn't trade spots with him at pimlico? all trainers go thru this...only lukas is scrutinized so unendingly.
it seems some trainers are chosen to be hated, while others get a pass even tho they lose a horse, or are arrogant (ahem, frankel...).
lukas was always his own man, and did a lot his own way, and kind of stepped on some toes on his way up, because he was different. as they say, better dead than different. but the thing is, his methods worked. obviously. yet the poison remains. i remember when landaluce took ill and died, he was crucified by so many....yet no one who pointed fingers at him, claiming he killed her, want to know that he was in her stall, her head in his lap, crying when she died. nope, that doesn't quite fit for some.

and dts, i also like shug. had he never done anything other than trained personal ensign, that would still have been enough!

Everybody runs there course. Heck they they wanted Paterno out of Penn State for a few years recently. What happened? He had a great season. Where was the talk from before. It happens every year with everyone.

Can we get rid of this thread? Let me re-state this. This thread actually has some good comments.

But can we get the Title change.

At least change it to Lukas Fading! This board shouldn't allow such titles.

Totally agree.
One of his (Phipps) was a beauty named Storm Flag Flying.
Gosh, I loved her.
DTS

i always cheer for phipps horses, black silks, cherry red cap. also any in the yellow of claiborne farm.

storm flag flying was a beauty on the track, very tenacious. hopefully she'll pass on those outstanding genes she inherited from her dam and grand-dam.
SFF's win in the bc filly race was incredible. not something you get to see and enjoy every day.

I used to work at a big tack store pretty close to Santa Anita, Lukas, Baffert, VanBerg and others would frequent the shop. Lukas had placed an order for a custom bit and came in person one day to pick it up. I brought it out and he could tell I was trying to figure the bit out, he smiled and explained what the bit was for and how it worked, he was always like that, very gracious and willing to go the extra mile. I always looked forward to him coming in and would chat about his horses, he is a very classy, charismatic individual. I also have nothing but fond memories of Baffert, VanBerg and Frankel, Baffert would always give us pictures of the horses, Silver Charm, Real Quiet etc.. They are just people like us , with the same feelings and emotions.

I never all of the accomplishments Lukas has. However, I do have a problem with all of the horse he ran into the ground over his career. He is great with 2 and 3 year olds, but I think we can all agree his older horse training pales in comparison. My theory for this goes back to how hard he runs his youngest horses into the ground. He also had every great horse he set his eyes bought and put into his barn for him.
It is possible to look at his career and show respect for all his accomplishments and yet at the same time hate the way he treated many horses. Of course maybe some of this has to do with his owners. If they want to see their horses great at 2 and 3 and don't care about their health or their careers past the age of 3 then Lukas had no choice.

Just thought I would throw this in. Been reading this thread. I thought the job he did with Spain was incredible. Just my opinion.

This is my opinion. I have worked with horses all of my life, and those of you who have not worked with them don't understand how incredibly hard it is to do what trainers like Todd Pletcher, Bob Baffert, Bobby Frankel, Nick Zito, Steve Asmussen, and D. Wayne Luckas (just to name a few) have done. To train that many champions is incredible, and I am not so quick to judge trainers or jockeys anymore because I know first-hand what can go wrong with a horse. Horses are such fragile creatures, and what is worse is they can't tell you when something may be hurting them a little bit. For example, in reality (and don't attack me for this), Barbaro COULD HAVE HAD some sort of an injury before they ever put him in the starting gate that went undetected because some injuries are so hard to find. It is a gamble, and EVERYONE involved with horses usually makes a few huge mistakes in their career just because this is a sport where it is so easy to make mistakes, and it is a sport in which anything can go wrong. Unfortunately, some of those mistakes turn into fatalities or retirements. That is the sport of horse racing...the sport of kings. It is not for the faint-hearted. As for D. Wayne Lukas, he may have over-stepped his boundaries more than normal in the past few years. I must admit that the stunt he pulled with Going Wild last year infuriated me to no end. D. Wayne Luckas may be in a slump, and he may have made some bad desicions in the past few years, but EVERY trainer will go through this sometime in their career. In fact, who am I to judge someone who has given so much to the sport, and who has produced champion after champion after champion? One thing is for sure, I will never forget that terrific run for the Triple Crown that he gave us with Charismatic back in 1999.

I respect you and anyone that has ever worked with horses. I would never try to say I knew 1% of what people who have worked with them know. However, with D.Wayne, I have to stick to my guns. He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen and don't tell me it is because of the volume of horses he ran. Asmussen, Pletcher and others have just as many horses and 1/10th of the amount of horses breaking down as D.Wayne has over the years. Also, the other great trainers that have been mentioned all have great records with older and younger horses. D.Wayne's horses and stats fall apart once he burns the horses up at 2 and 3. Yes, he's had many champions, but bought every horse at every sale that looked like they might have an ounce of talent. How about some of the little trainers out there that never have any talent in their barns that still manage to produce a champion. These are the guys who should be talked about. Also, look at all the great trainers that came out of D.Wayne's stable. I know this is a plus for Lukas as a teacher, but also a minus as to did all the work making some of those past champions.

Also as to Charismatic, remember again, Lukas had him in Maiden Claimer. He had given up on the horse before he ran. How many other great horses might have Lukas have had in his barn if hadn't given up on them right away like he did time and time again?

When Asmussen and Pletcher hit 70 years old, maybe you can tally up all the breakdowns they have had and then make this statement.

Unless you have numbers to prove it, this statement isn't necessarily true.

Do you know how many horses Asmussen has had break down? Pletcher?

What about all the 2 year olds that snapped a leg before they ever race?

1/10th of D. Wayne's breakdowns?

"He's had about 10 times more horses break down than any trainer I have ever seen"

I feel like the above statement is an unqualified one.

Nice posts, oracle.

--Dunbar

now you wanna come at me personally mike(oracle)? you really dont wanna go that route when it comes to "morals". i dont care whether luka$$ wins or loses a 100 races in row the guys still a pr ick at the end of the day. hmmmmmm nobody had no comment bout him being a self cenetered a$ shole and talking the owners into running TCAS in the derby.........gee i wonder why. you also mentioned jordan whos arguably the most successful and greatest athlete ever and played in the city i hailed from. i loved watchin the guy on the court as much as any1 but hes also a cheat off the court amongst other things. just because you got prior success and money doesnt make you a saint as a person.......lol were some of you part of the jury during the oj trial?


hey debbie you really think antley ditched his wife and his unborn? cmon, you get blinded that easily? chris was murdered and the guy you got the hots for gary stevens pretty much believes the same thing amongst other people. allen jerkins is still getting the job done, we had a trainer in a wheelchair saddle a horse in the derby this year and you people wanna use age as a excuse for his decline in his particular profession? of course d wayne dont care how good or bad he does, its not his millions getting flushed down the toilet.


luka$$' comments after "jockey" appeared on hbo just restated how much of a pri ck he is in saying he wouldnt feel sorry for shane sellers or any other jockey who drives 2 mercedes. well without those jocks d wayne dont feel sorry for he wins zero races and doesnt achieve the money and fame he did. you guys can talk 2 me till your blue in your collective faces about him, hes still a a$$hole

Hey guys, It's me richi42. I got tired of that name so I changed it.
Anyway, I totally agree with Playa. We have these debates about Lukas every few months. I know what he's accomplished but there are reasons for it. Last time we discussed this, Landson totally agreed with me that much of Lukas' success in the 1980s had to do with him being several years ahead of the other trainers in terms of pharmocolgy. He was practically the only guy that had all of his 2 year olds on steroids. His 2 year olds were as physically mature as 3 year olds. This gave Lukas a huge edge. His 3 year olds were bigger and stronger than everyone else's.
As I've stated before, nobody breaks down more horses percentage wise. Some of the biggest insurance companies will not insure his horses. What more do you need to know?

I don't know anyone in the business that thinks Lukas is a good trainer. Have any of you been to the track in the morning? Have you seen Lukas' horses train? His horses are so sore it is unbelievable. Everyone just shakes their heads every time they see another one of his horses hobble by.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but not about Eugene Klein. If my memory is correct, Klein totally felt like Lukas duped him and Klein was considering suing Lukas before he died.
As I've said before, Lukas had a lot of good qualities. He was bright, a hard worker, extremely driven, very well organized, had great assistants, was a great salesman, was a great public relations guy, etc. I do think he was good at picking yearlings, but when you have the resources to buy the horses with the best pedigress and the best confirmation, it makes picking yearlings much easier.

I'm sorry but noone cares about junkies Playa, junkies are a dime a dozen and a waste of space on this earth.

.....And he rips into PVal all the time. Dare I say the H word?