Track privitization
 

Let me ask an admittedly basic question:

Chris Christie says that he wants to get NJ government out of horse racing -- no subsidies.

Does that mean that he still would expect a privitized track to contribute the same amount in takeout minus operating costs to the state? Or are the profits also to be kept by private industry investors in such a plan?

If anyone finds details on what such a plan would mean, post it here please.

A mature industry shouldn't need subsidies. This isn't solar energy here. If horse racing can't make it in NJ, it shouldn't be there. The same for anywhere.

Awesome non sequitur... :tro:

Joey,

There's no plan as of yet. But even privitized, the entity running MTH, (NJ racing properties, et al..), are subject to the state's skim ('taxation') in the form of takeout. Remember that the state will still regulate the sport/run a racing commission, etc., and takeout funds that as well as other state coffer projects..

Tell me why the public tax payer should pay to build a stadium or lose 10s of millions as the NS Expo does? I'm nothing if not consistent. And your responses to me are old. Sorry you disagree all the time. But your smartass **** is tiresome.

Thanks Steve. That's about what I figured, but with all this talk of privitization being the only way to continue racing in NJ if the governor doesn't change his mind, I was wondering if the actual collection side for the state would change at all.

It might make a good incentive for a private firm if the skim was reduced so to allow more upside for the investors and possibly expand the field of bidders.

Really, how about some specifics? The harness track is bleeding money like you wouldn't believe. They are losing 10s of millions a year. Where does that come from exactly? Better, the Meadowlands original stadium is still not paid off, including the Harness track. It was all part of the expo authority which has failed miserably.

Operating budget needs to = Revs coming in

Coming from you? That's so great...!

Harldy a smartass on here. Speak my mind. Give facts as opposed to fairy dust farts you offer.

True. In fact I saw an article yesterday on Paulick Report or Equidaily -- one of them -- that reported that NJ Racing only started losing money at all after 2007, when the surrounding states were getting slots at their tracks, and NJ tracks were forbidden to do so by the State government.

That was also the rationale of the "subsidy" from A.C. -- that the casinos would pay the tracks not to put in slots.

How much more straightforward can this be?

“(The New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority) is out of money,” Hanson said. “It’s not the role of the state to subsidize but to work with the private sector.”

I love horse racing. But why should horse racing not have to stand on its own? So a homeless shelter or early start programs for kids aren't funded? These are things Christie is proposing.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...mission-report

NOW is the issue, not then. There used to be 25k at the Big M on a Wednesday in the 70's....That's not today. I live in the NOW.

You are indeed as big a smart ass as there is on here regularly delivering the most negative responses about anything and everything in the game.

But it's OK for Trenton to subsidize the casinos for decades? That's OK?

Boosting racing interests via the casino skim has a positive influence on the state's economy that likely pays back the alleged subsidy.

The fact that you can't see the state of the game in its current state as broken is your own faulty thinking, not mine. I put my money where my mouth is. Including financially donating towards this site almost every year of its existence. Just as a token of appreciation for having it.

And what do I get exactly?

Basically the "canard police" around every corner. The fact that Frankel cheated, something Brown has said for years, wiped away if mentioned b/c he's either dead or a friend.

-talk about takeout, a canard
-talk about racing surviving in its current state, non sequior

I don't have a problem. I could give a **** if you have a problem with me. I'm honest to a T on here. There is an ignore button if you want to use it, go ahead. In the meantime, there are lots of people who agree with me wholeheartedly but won't post as much to upset the board cabal.

Where did I say it was OK to subsidize the casinos? No where. Get a grip. I am not for anything that is broken, including the dump that is AC.

I'm not going to debate how I run my website with you. But what amounts to 'honest' evaluations about the game are open to debate of course. What you want to characterize as honest seems to invariably be a dour, angry or similarly negative interpretation of virtually everything that comes up.

Christie seems to owned by Atlantic City and those set to profit from the Xanadu debacle continuing.

Dude.. People used to gather on the steps of the Stock Exchange to buy stocks too. If you live in the NOW then why do you not see that attendence at the track is meaningless due to the technological changes in wagering.

That's fine. But if it's a public policy discussion, which you tangetally initiated with the response to Joey's post, this side of the equation needs to brought to everyone's attention that is hearing the Governor's mouthpiece talk ONLY about racing as being subsidized.

http://www.drf.com/news/two-voices-r...ersey-horsemen

Ray Bateman's letter doesn't seem available anymore, but he laid out the outrageous series of expenditures Trenton has heeped on AC. Here's an excerpt:

"The state’s tax on casino revenues is one of the lowest in the nation and a little more than half the casino tax in Pennsylvania. Gov. Whitman had a $300 million tunnel and roadway built to the Borgata casino; Gov. Florio ‘ordered’ the Sports Authority to build and operate (always at a loss) a new $275 million convention center in Atlantic City; later the west hall of the old convention center was rebuilt by the same authority for more than $100 million; a special train for gamblers from Philadelphia to Atlantic City was bought and paid for at New Jersey expense and operates annually at a loss, as does the ACES train express from New York; two new bus terminals were built (for the casinos, of course); and the huge state police presence in Atlantic City was not totally paid for by the casinos. The Atlantic City airport was improved with state and federal funds. When casinos comp gamblers in their rooms they do not pay the state hotel room tax – a big number loss each year to the state. No question that the casinos have enjoyed sweetheart relationships with all past governors and legislatures. Sad, but true. And now they want more and are still unwilling to compromise on slots at the Meadowlands, or on help for the horse industry – both essentially North Jersey concerns.”

Game certainly provides enough ammunition, does it not?

All true. I live in the area and I remember each one of these. Good job Steve.

This issue will hinge on the North versus South political power struggle. There is no merit in preferring A.C. over the tracks. Ideally we should be able to have both thrive to some extent.

That's the crux of it, isn't it. Rather than listen to a message you disagree with, it's much easier to push it aside as the rantings of some crazed miserable internet poster(in fact I didn't realize how freaking joyous most posters are on here). I'm happy as a pig in **** right now actually. The fact is racing is in the death throws on many levels. And since I live in NJ and am a public employee, and voted for Chrisite against my own personal self-interests, I guess I can see the forest through the trees more than most....A slow motion train wreck is still a train wreck. Horse racing will rebound when the economics of the game don't count on Grandma to pull a lever.

Huh, handle is down about 10% year over year(national). And that's after a year over year decline last year.

Did you account for the recession / depression we are now in?

YES!!!! Which is why I'm talking about ending subsidies in general, not specific to racing or any area.

IT's really simple as I see it. Subsidy is a hot button word that people relate to bailing out the wall street gamblers. Mom and Pop want nothing to do with subsidies. Atlantic City didn't subsidize NJ racing.. It was a business agreement, a contract.. Atlantic City agreed to pay x million dollars if NJ didn't seek slots. NJ racing did what it was required to do to receive payment for services rendered. Now AC is calling that a subsidy in order to unite the masses against Horse Racing.. Christie is calling it a subsidy because his fat ass seems to be in bed with AC. AC no longer wants to enter in such a contract as they have the right to. NJ needs to get on the ballot, slots and sports betting at the racetracks so the industry can be competitive with neighboring states and save the BILLIONS of dollars of revenue that horse racing produces on track and off.

The racinos are a band-aid. When all of the tracks get them it will starve the smaller tracks that have them now.

What they need to do is add the racinos and legalize all drugs and prostitution but just let the tracks sell the drugs and whores.

That way the tracks can make money and still be horrendously incompetent.

If horseman can get disount prices, I am all for this.


Note i asked for a discount, not a subsidy

This is public money. Horse racing can and should be able to survive without public money....We aren't talking about your garbage pick up and police force.

They're watching in Vegas, too:
http://www.gamingtoday.com/industry/...aryland_casino

Like automakers and banks?

I was against that too big guy...but you might have people say "the financial system is more important than horse racing." The auto bailouts made no sense. Nor did the banking ones IMO.

If government was simply OK with receiving income taxes on the thousands of people who work in the industry and taxes on items like admissions and concessions (where applicable), rather than acting as a parasite with parimutuel taxes, OTBs and the like, horse racing would probably be a self-sustaining, healthy industry. The problem isn't that government is getting too little from racing, it's that government is already getting too much. And now, when asked to give up a little of the excess that is is already receiving from the over-taxed industry, the politicians spin it into government "subsidizing" racing. Priceless!!

You are missing the point. Horse racing survives on gambling, not concessions or attendance...If every track needs VLTs than something is wrong with the business model. Of course it can be fixed. But don't expect government to be the one to fix it.