Unless the Packers score 30 points or more tonight...
 

New England will lead the entire NFL in points scored through 3 weeks.

And - according to ATeam's flashy DVOA stats ... the three teams they've played so far this year were ranked as the #1, #3, and #10 pass defenses in the NFL in 2009.

So, despite playing 3 top ten defenses against the pass from last year - and three top 13 defenses overall from last year - including the #1 ranked Jets on both categories - the Pats will have scored more than anyone else.

Just another typical Moss made offense .. if only they also let him play cornerback opposite of the rookie McCourty.

When will people see it? He is the best EVER.

Pats have also given up 82 points in just three games. Good enough for 5th highest in the league. Good luck the rest of the year giving up that many points.

If that dumb stat makes you feel better Doug so be it.

I'm pretty troubled that you see it.

When the offensive line is competent enough to allow Moss a chance to run deep - it is supposed to create a veritable juggernaught of offensive production.

It makes everyone in the system at the skill positions perform vastly better - though it does stress the offensive line far more than a West Coast offense.

It is a sad truth that he doesn't play defense or special teams - and since he is not a quarterback and running back - and the defenses first focus is to stop him - he will only touch the ball a handfull of times a game. In an era of stats and fantasy sports popularity ... the true greatness of the Moss made offense gets over looked.

When guys like Wes Welker and Danny Woodhead (a faster, shorter Welker) inevitably go to the Pro Bowl - despite both being undrafted and having no prior success in the NFL ... you'll know why. Because of the space they exploit in the middle created by Moss. They are smart little guys - who cut well.

Eight different QB's played the best football of there life in his offensive. And the few who didn't ... it was because the Raiders O-line couldn't pass block long enough to complete a three step drop .. let alone pass block long enough for the man to run double moves at change-up pitch speed on deep balls.

Tell me you don't see it Joseph ... because if you actually see it ... I'm deeply concerned.

Dude with or without you Randy Moss is the best NFL player ever. He demands a double and triple team. He is Jordan and Lebron... He makes EVERYONE ELSE BETTER.

If you actually played football - instead of tennis - you'd know that the job of the offense is simply to try to score points and to not turn the ball over.

The job of the defense is simply to try to not allow points and force turnovers.

The job of the special teams is a little less simple.

3 games. Your defense is a laugh.

The good thing is that - other than Vince Wilfork - there isn't anyone left on that defense that can't be replaced by a journeyman.

As other teams key defensive players get beat up and injured - you will see some other defenses become worse.

As long as Wilfork doesn't get injured - the Pats defense shouldn't be any worse .. and considering how young they are .. they might only get a little better.

It's not anything to feel good about... but, whatever.

Reading this thread justmade me throw up a little in my mouth.

Defense wins championships. Which is why all of those high powered Randy Moss offenses have a total of zero rings.

It's very early, but if you look at the Pats realistically they are going to need to drastically improve on defense to be a factor as the season wears on. Considering they have little talent on d, I just don't see how that is going to happen.

They'll score points in bunches, but you have to be able to stop teams also. They haven't shown they are able to do that.

Defense wins what?

If that were true - Ray Lewis would have more than just one ring despite playing on several incredible defensive units.

Teams win championships.

Tony Banks, Trent Dilfer, Elvis Gerback, Kyle Boller, and Joe Flacco at QB screwed him out of a lot of jewlery.

Hell - if the Ravens didn't block a field goal and return for a TD in the playoff win against the Titans the year they won the super bowl .. Lewis would have zero rings.

The fact that Trent Dilfer has a ring proves my point. Of course the best defense isn't going to win every year. But the better defenses are usually the teams that go far in the playoffs and win.

It's not an opinion, these are facts.

OOOOOOOOOO

Peyton Manning quickly developed into the NFL's only other veritable juggernaught of offensive production.

He touches the ball every play though.

His one ring came the one year he got strong defense in the playoffs.

That team had 4 Hall of Fame candidates either in the backfield or on the offensive line.

Jamal Lewis and Preist Holmes were both elite NFL running backs. Shannon Sharpe is a soon to be hall of fame tight end. And Johnathon Ogden is a soon to be hall of fame tackle.

That offense could run the ball very well.

How many points did that offense score--if you know.

yo...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z39MZgsd_KM

Dude, that offense went 5 games without scoring a touchdown during the season. During the playoffs and Super Bowl they allowed a total of 23 points in 4 games.

The defense set records for fewest points allowed and fewest rushing yards allowed during the regular season.

The fact is, to be a great team, you have to be able to win both shootouts and pillow fights. If the Pats can be held under 20 points, which is clearly possible for a real defense (see Jets, Ravens), they'll lose. Every time. I've never seen so many threads about such a mediocre team. It was annoying when they were good. Now it's just sad.

2009 Saints 25th Defense 1st Offense
2008 Steelers 1st Defense 22nd Offense
2007 Giants 7th Defense 16th Offense
2006 Colts 21st Defense 3rd Offense
2005 Steelers 4th Defense 15th Offense
2004 Patriots 9th Defense 7th Offense
2003 Patriots 7th Defense 17th Offense
2002 Bucs 1st Defense 24th Offense
2001 Patriots 24th Defense 19th Offense
2000 Ravens 2nd Defense 16th Offense

Couple things to note- Defense is important but not the be all-end all. The more the rules change the more it means less than offense rather than more- note that if the Steelers don't pull off a great drive with a minute left in the SB, it's the 25th, 19th, 7th, and 21st ranked defenses over the last 4 years. Not exactly a stellar defensive group.

I dont agree that defense isnt still extremely important. overall rankings in football are flawed because teams with great offenses strike quickly and often which means that the defense is on the field longer than expected and often with a big lead they play softer, stop blitzing, use zone coverage, etc. Of the teams listed outside of the flukey 2001 Pats, the Super Bowl winners almost always have a top 10 defense OR they are the top 3 offenses in the game. 70% of winners were barely in the top 15 offenses.

Your stats seem to prove Hoss' point. 3 defenses 15th or lower won, as opposed to 7 in the top 10. 7 offenses 15th or lower won, while 3 in the top 10 won.

I'm not disagreeing that a defense is still important- I said that it is, and I think that upgrading a defense allows a team to be competitive quicker. However, I'm suggesting that there has a been a fundamental shift in the rules over the past 5 years (pass interference called tighter, less ability to attack the QB, more protection of the ballcarrier with horse collar tackles disallowed, no more 5 yard facemask (all 15), no more "football move" required on catches [except, apparently, in the end zone Calvin Johnson], "defenseless receiver" rule, etc), which has allowed weak defensive teams to be serious contenders, and win championships.

Of course..pretty obvious.They fucl<ed with the game because offense brings in more money.

Couple things to note- I never said it was the be all-end all. Your stats prove how important having a good defense is. Of course there are exceptions, but you have to be able to stop your opposition. This is true for most of the major sports. Getting back the the crux of the thread, the Pats can't stop anyone right now. Because of this it's going to be extremely hard for them to make the playoffs.

JUST GIVE THEM TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool::cool:

Agreed.

"Defense wins championships" is saying "be all end all" in my opinion. Maybe that's not to the degree that you meant.

Because of their schedule, the Pats will probably make the playoffs (and lose in the first round.) They have three road games against Buffalo, Detroit, and Cleveland- which means they could lose a game at home and still be 10-6 which should be good enough. If they get one of Miami (unlikely), SD (possible), Pitt (very unlikely), Chicago (possible)- they are 11-5 and definitely in. Jets also have the same trifecta on the road which is huge for their chances of winning the division, because at this point all they need to do is keep pace with the tiebreakers in the pocket. Miami, on the other hand, gets trips to GB, CIN, BAL, OAK, NYJ, and NE left- so even with the two road wins in hand have only 1 game left where they will definitely be favored. And even in that game, Oakland is putrid but not Buf-Det-Cle bad. They are a missed chip shot from 2-1 right now. It would be tough for the AFC East to get both wild cards, because either Cincy, Balt, or Indy/Hou/Tenn will probably get one of them, so it's a 3 for 2.

With more rule changes than you mentioned ,ThePhilski......it's Defense wins titles a lot more than offense.


I'll take the best def. over the best off.... every time.

If given the choice of a top defense or a top offense what do you think most coaches would want?

I can't figure out if both these teams are just really bad or if the Bears really do have a chance this year.

I think all 32 head coaches would pick defense.

I also take best defense over best offense, even with the rule changes. If I were to pick a SB winner right now it would be the Steelers for that reason. But it certainly has opened up the opportunities to the 2009 Saints and 2006 Colts of the world.

Unfortunately, my team has chosen to take both the worst offense and one of the worst defenses. :mad:

They both suck.

Of course they would. Because defense wins championships.

Yes...That's the way I mean it,too.



Sorry about your team.

Who are they?

Oh, the rule works even better in college fb.




Ohio State vs. Miami being the classic example.

The Saints defense may have been ranked 25th last year ... but they were #2 in the NFL in turnovers forced .. just one behind the Packers... and that's not factored into where the unit is ranked.

It's all about scoring points and not turning it over for an offense.

It's all about not giving up points and forcing turnovers for a defense.

Just for Randall's info.

He likes the Canadian BillieGoats