Barbaro (the Champ)
 

To the announcers on ESPN it seemed to be a forgone conculsiuon after the Travers that Bernardini had exhalted himself to 3-year old champion. It really made sick in the pit of my stomach, especially how Bailey explained it (with his beaten lengths theory). Bernardini beat 5 horses in late summer, 4 very average horses, and 1 good one. Well Barbaro destroyed 19 other horses in late SPRING...19 pretty damn good horses...the horse won the KY derby, FL derby, a stakes races on turf, and now because Bernardini is beating on shat later in the year he's a more deserving champion? At the end of the year the good competition separates to various stake races across the country (case in point, Lawyer Ron inthe St. Louis Derby). They are not all in KY. The Preakness & the Travers combined wasn't as impressive as KY was this year. Unless he wins the Breeder's Cup Classic, I'm not sold this horse could have beaten Barbaro, any place, any surface, any distance, any where.

Here's some good news for you ...

The Ecipse Award committee has decided to accept "Get Well" cards as valid votes for the 3YO championship.

That should put your boy over the top!

That's kind of my point, a lot people are saying "well we can't judge a horse on the merits of what he COULD have done at the track". Well, you don't need to, Barbaro's resume is still more impressive to this date, than Bernardini's. And I would add an "IMO" here but I feel it's the gospel truth.

Well, yes ... but here's another way some people may look at it ...

Bernardini and Barbaro faced each other once ... and Bernardini beat him by over a mile ...

... that may convince some voters to go for Bernardini.

I just can't see how barabro would be the 3-y0 champ over Beranrdini...i just can't...it would be a political and emotion-influenced travesty IMO...

But then again, I've seen a few bad Eclipse votings...i musdt admit that the voters (and i know MANY of them) in this industry..alot of them are not half-qualified to vote.....too many people with little knowledge of this industry have votes and it is not right...i'll leave it at that...

just like when Declan's moon beat out Afleet Alex as Champ 2-yo a few years ago when never leaving Cali. or running in the BC while Alex carrered his game to all the big dances and won multiple important stakes and never dodged anyone while runnig well everytime with some bad luck when he lost.....stupdi West coast propaganda gave it to Declan's moon - who is now showing that he is a real rat while Afleet Alex was a true champion race horse....

Bellamy Road...no offense, but you are really biased, and I believe that you have let your emotions overtake your sense of judgement. I love Barbaro just as much as anyone, and realize that his accomplishments earlier in the year were nothing short of amazing. However, Bernardini has won two huge races while utterly annihilating his competition while running stellar times. He very well may win both the JCGC and BCC. In fact, I'm looking for great showings in both. I really believe that this horse is a superhorse. We also still have Discreet Cat who looks to also be a complete monster. His comback debut was phenomenal. I can almost guarantee that Barbaro will not win the Eclipse award nor, at this point, do I believe that he should. Bernardini has clearly established himself as the next coming. I am going out on a limb, but I think that he is the best horse since Spectacular Bid.

I'll give you it's subjective, and there have been some awful decisions, I just don't think a Barbaro victory would be one of them...I'm not sure how many voters there are, or who they are, but if they remain objective and don't get suckered into this media malestrom that is Bernardini, we'd get our true champion in Barbaro...now if Bernardini does win the BCC, I'll give...my statements on the horse are neither political (as I don't care who owns the horses) nor emotional (as I think Barbaro has flat out the better justification for winning the award).

See I feel the opposite...it sounds to me like YOU ae the one who is emotional in remembering what you have seen recently, and equating that with being better than what's taken place in the past...it's for the year of 2006, not the past month in which Bernardini has "demolished" horses soon to be in the claiming ranks

You are a very LITTLE man, small on intelligence, and lacking in class
I'd have to say, you're a piss poor individual.

No, I am not biased at all. I actually like Barbaro's story much better than Bernardini's. I am a huge fan of both Micheal Matz and the Jacksons. My heart would give the award to Barbaro, but my head would give it to Bernardini. In voting, my head would obviously win. However, depending on what Bernardini does by the end of the year, he may truely be in my heart as well. Besides, Bernardini isn't done racing yet, and I truely believe that he will win or put on a show in both his races against older horses.

Bernardini has won two Grade I's and Barbaro has won two Grade I's. They both have beaten very good horses in SNS, BD, and BGC. However, I truely believe that Bernardini is more talented on dirt than Barbaro was based on his final times and stellar perfomances.

Barbaro beat BGC by six lengths. Bernardini beat the improved BGC by seven and a half lenghts. They are probably actually pretty equal right now in terms of voting. Also, if I remembered the races that I had seen lately and had been biased in that respect, then why wasn't I high on BGC to win the Travers after his brillant Haskell performance like some were? Why did I stick with Bernardini?

Jessica...times at different tracks and beaten lengths dont mean anything. That beaten lengths of bluegrass cat is the most asinine thing I've ever heard in my life. I'm not trying to be mean, I attribute that to Jerry Bailey, and not you. I am respectful of Bernardini and your stance on his merits. However, there is nothing you can say at this time to convince me he is better, or has had a better year than Barbaro.

IF Bernardini beats older horses in the his next race and runs well enough in the Classic I don't think there will be anything close to a debate.

He will have done things that Barbaro never had the chance to do and will be a deserving winner.

You can't think that Fl Derby + Kentucky Derby > Preakness + Belmont + Jim Dandy + Travers + beating older horses.

Bernardini will be a more accomplished horse if he beats older. How do you not give the award to the more accomplished animal?

BTW: This debate probably resolves itself with time. This feels a little like deciding now what I'll wear to a New Years party. I think I can probably wait before I decide.

I don't think anyone need worry about Barbaro taking 3 y.o. now. I think it's a shame in a way because it is just that Barbaro didn't have a chance to show us what was coming. However, confirmed Bobby fan that I am, there is no taking away from what Bernardini is doing. It also doesn't take away from what Barbaro is doing. No one is ever going to forget Barbaro and that is for sure. He doesn't need an Eclipse.

I always felt Alex was SO totally ripped off. At least I don't feel anyone will be here. I'm thinking we are fortunate to have had two such exciting horses in one year.

bernardini didn't run in the belmont.

of course that's beside the point....if bernardini wins out the year, he'll get top 3 yo and hoy. he can lose the jcgc and win the bcc and get them both. but if he loses his next two, barbaro will get top 3 yo. at THIS point, bernardini hasn't defeated anyone that barbaro hasn't beaten--matter of fact, bernardini hasn't faced everyone barbaro met on the track.

afleet alex absolutely deserved the eclipse over declan's moon. but he made up for that all on his own.

Side with Coach here....the Travers was a match race against an over-matched Bluegrass Cat, small field, the Cat forced to alter his natural running style, and now news of his injury....the Travers and Jim Dandy were paid works for this horse! The crack about him beating Barbaro in the Preakness was classless and deserves no further response. Times? The Derby was faster than the Travers...much more demanding pace, 20 horses, talent level way way beyond any field this horse has faced! Bernardini may yet prove to be a great horse, he must do more than he has thus far to deserve being judged better than Barbaro!

You are correct. I forgot about Jazil. I'll leave the post uncorrected so others can have some fun with me.

also, remember that bernardini only came into his own after barbaro exited the scene....his races later in the year should not carry more weight than barbaros early in the year.

but people are definitely into what have you done for me lately. sadly barbaro can't answer any further questions on the track.
believe me, some voters will think that if bernardini can beat older, it stands to reason that barbaro would have as well....it's not over.

ought to be interesting.


what a year.

Actually what you might see is Bern to win HORSE of the year and Barbaro to win 3 year old of the year. I think it happened in Kitten's Joy year, but that might have been different because it involved different surfaces

poor jazil!!!

steppenwolfer is done for the year, any word on jazil?

Yeah, that's entirely possible too.

Hey, I love Barbaro and what he did in Florida and Louisville, but this is Bernardini's championship to win or lose depending on what happens. That's just the tough reality of the race as it stands. Barbaro wouldn't be the first to go to the sidelines and lose division honors due to an injury, so let's not overstate his case and give him the sympathy vote. Voting for Barbaro at this point would be like voting for Bellamy Road after last year's Wood.

no one is suggesting it isn't bernardinis to win or lose.

but comparing barbaro to bellamy road would be like comparing bernardini to sinister minister.

wait I take offense to that...BR backed up his performance in the Wood with a corageous, albeit losing effort in the Travers. I still haven't seen Sinister Minister validate his high beyer mark with a top notch performance.

Oh now that is just wrong. No way. Bellamy Road never accomplished anything near what Barbaro has and he never supported his Wood with another performance where as Barbaro proved everything he did by just getting better.

easy coach! i like bellamy road too..

He backed the fact that he had talent, but in no way indicated brilliance. Barbaro most definitely gave us glimmers of brilliance and versatility.

OK, I'll reluctantly concede that notion...:(

If Bernardini wins the Breedrs Cup Classic he should be Horse of the Year and top 3 yo award.

I am probably one of the bigger Barbaro fanboys on the board, but even I must say, he really has no business in 3 Yr Old Champion voting anymore.

I think on a whole this crop of 3 yr old is somewhat thin, and Bernardini stands at the top of it as we speak. Does he beat older horses as handily as he beat some of the weak 3 yr olds? Time will tell. Barbaro's body betrayed him, and while that cannot be held against him, voting in theory that Barbaro was a lead pipe lock to win the Triple Crown and show up and win the BCC, would be an injustice to Bernardini, and an afront to the fans.

Bernardini has manhandled the 3 yr olds since May and if he goes on and wins the BCC he deserves 3 yr old champion and HOY. If he doesn't fare as well against olders, he still should be 3 yr old champion.

Barbaro has alot of things that can never be taken away from him. He was the champion of America's grandest race, winning in a fashion that to compare, needed history books to be cracked opened and examined. That alone endeared him to an entire nation, and when that nation watched him take to the track again, it wept at what it saw.

He is a champion, cut down in his prime by a fragile body. He fights everyday to see the sun rise every morning. His day to day battle inspires many. Some even see him as a "hero". Misguided or not, Barbaro is a champion of heart and determination and the 2006 Kentucky Derby. The heart and determination is a far more grand prize than a shiny Eclipse Award.

That being said, Bernardini deserves that shiny Eclipse Award.

I think it's a bit strong to say he shouldn't be in the voting, myself.

A simple fact that even the most ardent of Bernardini supporters couldn't even argue is, you take Bernardini out of the races he's won and insert Barbaro, certainly you'd have to like his chances of being sucessful in those races. Now you take Babaro's wins and take him out and insert Bernardini, well I see LOTS of question marks in him being able to win those races, and THAT is what people are missing in this debate. If you're going to punish Lava Man for winning against suspect competition, then you would have to do the same thing for what Bernardini is facing.

I'm still not sold on the alleged "greatness" of Bernardidni. Yesterday he beat 5 horses setting a pedestran pace. He beat 5 horses in the Dandy including Minister's Bid (2nd) and Hemingway's Key (3rd). He beat 3 horses in the Withers. The Preakness,with 8 finishers, was a race in which the entire flow changed one furlong out of the gate, though I think it was Bernardini's most impressive.
I want to see him in a race with a semi-full field (9 or 10 horses); I want to see him in a race with legitimate speed types as well as some talented late foot. Then I want to see him duplicate to some extent the ease or winning margins he's been able to do against short, suspect fields before I hang the "great" sign on him.

Your reading comprehension seems to be severely lacking.

Take another look at my post ... I was just reporting what others are saying ... not my own personal opinion ... nor did I misreport the facts of the outcome of this year's Preakness Stakes.

If you don't want to know what's out there ... if you're uncomfortable with what has eventuated in the world ... don't get involved with an informational website like this one ... and even more important ... don't draw conclusions ... especially vulgar ones ... about members of this forum whom you don't know.

There was no point to this post but to rub salt into a great many wounds! This is classless no matter how you spin it! Coach is absolutely correct to call you on it...I call you on it also! My reading comprehension is pretty good...Foolish Pleasure "beat" Ruffian in the same way, don't see many folks bringing that up over the years!

Foolish Pleasure defeated Ruffian by considerably less than a mile ... the only loss on her otherwise splendid record ...

... while Bernardini defeated Barbaro by about a mile ... more or less depending on exactly how it's measured.

You may not like it ... but those are the facts.

It's acceptable to attack a person's opinions or beliefs ... but there's no place for attacks on anyone's character on this forum ... especially for simply reporting indisputable facts.

Shame on you ... and your buddy.

Imo, Barabro is still the reigning 3 yr old at this time. If Bern was in the Fla derby is see him coming in 3rd and losing the KD to Bobby. You can't take away what Bobby did or even what he could have done. on and off the track.

and Foolish Pleasure did not beat Ruffian. she was a dnf and it was a no contest, She retired undefeated.