Saratoga 5th - No DQ?
 

How in the world do they not take down the 2 - Pelican Lake?

It was better for me that he stayed up, but damn, that seemed pretty obvious.

B/c Bond needed a win.

They have no idea what the hell they're doing. When the jockeys get on the phone with them there might as well be a monkey on the other end.

Home vs. Away team.

Doesn't bother me because Plesa has a knack for burning my tickets up. Why he's at Toga can be chalked up to delusions of grandeur.

I can't dispute the fact that the 7 was likely not running better than 4th. However, if we're at a point where the only criteria for a DQ is whether it cost the affected party a placing then what's stopping jockeys from plowing into tired horses left and right? That's how injuries happen.

That was a ridiculously terrible non-call.

NT

But some people on this board say that's crazy, that "stewards don't work like that." ;)

Oh sure they don't. They are professionals. :D

The incident on the turn had absolutely no impact on the outcome of the race.

Why punish the bettors who played an 8/1 winner that was clearly best? Why punish the owner who paid all of the training bills?

Fine the jockey and give him days and be done with it. The idea that doing this will somehow lead to injuries is nonsense.

If that's your POV that's fine, it's consistency that bettors want

The precedent has been set, let's hope no one gets hurt out there and decisions will be consistent from here on in. If they do DQ someone for something similar you can bet the bettors will remember this day.

Yes - you prefer consistency ... although if the winner does that - and the horse it fouls is beaten a head for 3rd place .. it's a DQ because it cost a horse a placing...and than you feel the pain of the bettor who played the best horse at 8/1 - or the owner who paid 2K a month in training bills and gets placed 4th with the best horse.

If the incident has no impact at all on the outcome in any way shape or form ... don't change it and fine the jockey and give him days.

If anything I would have DQ'd Bridgmohan just for riding so pathetically, he had the best horse in the race, but he negotiated the turn/split like a 10lb apprentice would. For a journeyman jock that has been around as long as he has, it was not a good effort.

His caliber?

There are about 4.5 jocks in the country who can make a positive impact most of the time. After that you have another several hundred meat and potato guys spread throughout the country who - in general - aren't separated by much ability wise...they're merely separated by the opportunities they get.

After that class, you have the guys who could stop the Yankees.

No factor in handicapping is more overrated than the jockey factor.

It's about consistency. It's about maintaining a straight course. These are things that used to matter to the stewards in NY. There have been DQs on this circuit for infractions that were significantly less severe.

I'm no jockey but I would think that a horse being swung out into another horse knocking that one off stride is a great way for a jockey to fall off. Or is that nonsense?

NT

The difference between Leparioux and The Boogyman is infantesimal when you watch Julien's ride in the 7th, he almost never panics, he waited for room on the turn and the horse won. If that was the Boogyman he would have side wiped a few horses just desperate to get out in time.

Nevermind the fact you're comparing a turf route to a dirt sprint but don't let that stop you...nothing ever does so why start now?

Have you watched him on turf? I recognize the difference in surfaces but that is minutia in the discussion of a patient ride and a panicked one.

Definitely. The only time I look is when the horse I'm considering has a horrendous rider... I feel like they can move a horse down way more easily than the other way around.

What does the severity of the foul matter if it obviously had no impact on the outcome of the race?


I agree that he should be fined and should get days. It's typically when the horse that has more run is kept in where big trouble happens. Not from something like that.

So Bridgmohan panicked? That's good to know.

The way his horse was moving if he had waited then he more than likely would have to pull the reins and that is almost certain death in a dirt race at that point in the race.

In a turf ROUTE it's a completely different story.

exactly! the owner, trainer shouldn't be penalized if the jock's an idiot. penalize the jock, give him incentive to do things right.

I know what you are saying, however in many races many horses don't have an impact in the outcome of the race even before the gate opens, by your reasoning one of these no chancer's could be mugged during the race and no action will be taken by the stewards. In essence if a horse can't win a race, they can never be fouled? This makes absolutely no sense.

The horse was going to win, I think we all know he was on the best horse this race. It was unnecessary for him to take the chance he took, let me ask you if the stewards sided on a DQ and you had a bet on him, I bet you would not be so complimentary of him then. He got away with one, okay it's a good ride. This time.

The the victim in this race was not going to win, the case could be made that she might have had a better placing had she not been hit. "Outcome" doesn't just refer to the top spot.

No kidding the outcome doesn't just refer to the top spot - and the horse who finished 4th was the one that was fouled and she finished 7 full lengths behind the 3rd place finisher.

No halfway rational person could even attempt to argue that the foul cost her more than 2.5 lengths tops - let alone 7 full lengths.

Had another horse passed her for 4th ... than a DQ could be justified because there was superfecta wagering on the race and 4th money is still 4th money.

Love the chart call of this race:

"clobbered, knocking rival 3 paths sideways, angled out impatiently despite opening on rail"

Funny stuff.

That's why chart callers are useless. Now suckers will bet the 7 back without looking at video.

http://www.nyra.com/stewards/sar/SC080610.shtml

I agree 100% with the stewards conclusion and decision .. however, unless I'm reading the attatched rule wrong, the horse technically should have been DQ'd.

They've got the rule written as a DISJUNCTION. Sounds as if they meant it to be a CONJUNCTION. The latter is what most horseplayers would want, as well.

put it this way...i cashed my tickets before they could change their minds.....

$2k a month in training bills? It's more like $3.5k-$4k a month at the big tracks when you include the vet bills. Most guys charge $85-$90 a day. The top guys charge $105-$110 a day. At $90 a day, it costs you $2,700 a month not including the vet bill. The vet bill wil be at least $800 a month. So you're usually looking at a minimum of around $3,500 a month at the big tracks.

With regard to the race in question, I didn't see it and I'm too lazy to watch it right now. But in general, I agree with you. I am more of a proponent of fining the jock and giving him days rather than disqualifying the horse in most cases similar to this.

I think you could make the analogy to pass interference in football. If the ball was not catchable, then pass interefence will not be called. Even if you foul the wide receiver, pass interference will not be called if the ball wasn't catchable because the outcome of the play was not affected.

In both horseracing and football I think the argument can be made that the interference is irrelevant if it does not change the outcome. However, I still think the jockeys should get days for reckless moves like this. There obviously needs to be some deterrent to reckless riding.

In the race in question, Bridgmohan got lucky that the horse he fouled held on for 4th. Because if the horse would have run 5th, I think the stewards would have had to disqualify the winner for costing that horse 4th.

Jamie Ness is $50 a day - which comes out to $1,500 a month on day rate - and he's 3rd in the nation in wins behind Asmussen and Pletcher.

If you're spending 3.5 to 4K a month in training bills on a Maiden 20 claimer .. you're hopeless.

I agree with you that it's obviously not profitable to spend $90 a day on a $25k maiden claimer. But on the big circuits like Southern California and New York, you don't have a choice. There aren't any trainers that charge $50 a day. I think you are better off shipping somewhere else. In California, you can send a horse up to Northern California but even up there it's $65 a day. You are better off going to Philly Park or Delaware and spending $50 a day and running for bigger purses. There are trainers that charge $50 a day in New Mexico but the purses aren't as good in New Mexico as they are back east.

the other thing that puzzled me other than the non take down...was the the double payoff after the next race. pelican lake paid 18.20 and sotique paid 25.60...yet the double came back 114 and change..somebody made a big double play on those two horses. i hope it was not the stewards.....lol

Maybe they arranged for that horse to get a clear rail run around the track.:rolleyes: Doesn't win otherwise.

wasn't PL like 5/2 m/l? the bigger question should be how in the hell did he go off at 8-1?

The race in question was in NY and you'd be hard pressed to find a trainer in NY getting only $50/day. If the horse that was hit was prevented from making her best placing, it changed the outcome for them, even if she was not going to WIN.

In this particular case, the incident did not appear to have cost the horse a placing. The horse that was fouled ran 4th and would not have run better than 4th even if the incident did not happen.

As DrugS has repeatedly said, she was 7 lengths behind third. She wasn't finishing any better than 4th. While I disagree with the decision, it didn't cost the 7 a placing.