Brox chokin' again
 

They got to have had about enough of this guy getting owned in national games like this. You would think third time the charm. People are gunna blame pitching back to back. I know. I know. People always come up with bullsht. They need to get someone who can close against top teams. Simple as that. Been sayin it for 2 years. Talk about stubborn muthafkrs.

No, Miller, the Dodgers ain't wondering what happened tonite. You fat FOOL. We are used to having this pig get owned. Just a matter of nobody doing anything to change it. How bad do you want a pressure closer? Not bad enough yet. I don't know how much pain it's gunna take. There were closers on the market. Detroit wanted it more. IT'S SIMPLY A POORLY RUN CLUB. I think Torre has made up his mind now (about whether to keep managing them.) I think that's a "no." He's got to be tired of this pig embarassing the club. He should get out. Brox is the cancer that keeps on killing.

life was sure eaiser when he used to go get "mo" for the 9th no scuds?

Sh1t!!! Just trade the fat basterd. I'm sure the 29 other team have no problem with that.....he would close for 27 of them right away, and wait for Mariano to retire and take the spot the Yanks.

I'll give you Lidge and Baez for Broxton.. though I do understand your pain. He's a top closer, who maybe doesnt like the spotlight?

Of course people that are fans of other teams are gunna say Brox is great. They know, if they ever really need to win a pressure game, they can get it off him. Any objective person would have to note that the guy is useless in big games. The only exception is during the divisional series (when the Dodgers were big underdogs.)

He's still better than the Phillies closer, even in clutch situations.

Who in the heck is better in pressure situations other than Rivera?

One of the most remarkable things that Mo Rivera has accomplished was to be managed by Joe Torre for all those years and get by with only a few minor injuries. Broxton pitched on Wednesday, thursday, was warming up on Friday but wasnt needed, pitched again on Saturday and once again on Sunday.

Sure it was Broxton that was giving up the hits but he was overworked that week and should nopt have been left out there to throw almost 50 pitches. The managers job is to put the right people in the right situation. Winning an interleague game at this point in the season shouldnt be so important that you risk blowing out your closers arm and secondarily cause him and the other pitchers in the bullpen to lose confidence. Coming into the inning it wasn't even a save situation. And Scuds please tell me what other closer is/was available again?

the guy is good , very good chuck , but he ain't rivera and no one else is

joe ain't a miracle worker , when you have the top gun in the 9th inning coming in for you , you are going to look like a genius on the bench

Joe is a bullpen killer. Always has been. Ask Scott Proctor.

:tro:
Mariano is the only guy he went out of his way to protect.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5504

Same guy I requested last Winter. 6.8 mil this year. Has 18 saves, and 1 blwn sv. How long we gunna blame this fkn horndog wife for not spending money on good changes? They don't address their problems. It's retardation (the act or result of delaying.)

Broxton isnt a problem.

So you'd rather spend 3 million a year more on a guy who is 8 years older and hasnt pitched in a high leverage situation in three years, is on his third team in 4 years, one who traded him for spare parts and the other who just let him walk? You realize in his last playoff appearance Valverde took the loss after giving up 3 walks and a hit in the NLCS?

and you can ask mendoza , lloyd, and stanton as well and get different answers chuck

he did a great job between '96 and '01 after that it got harder , starting pitching wasn't as strong in the latter torre years mr simon

To hell he ain't. You got a tumor or something? He's single-handedly lost the pivotal game 4 in the NLCS 2 years in a row (not once.) He just blew a game that they had a 4 run lead in. Yankee Fans infested Dodger Stadium. That was a playoff atmosphere that night. We all know it, but only a few will admit it. He blew that game because it was intense. He's a weak person. I'll go to the post with Valverde. I doubt he had the run support that Broxton has pssd away. I certainly do know what's gunna happen if we rely on Brox to close in the post. You don't have to be brilliant to figure that out. Come on, would you really be sticking up for this choking cow if it wasn't me who despises him? We are gunna bet on this. If the Dodgers make it to the post(big if,) then we'll vote on this fatboy's performance in the post. If you really believe this stuff, back it up. I would of won this bet the last 2 years, but you've again tried to couch together some angle. I recognize that scared bitch I saw on Sunday Night. She ain't changed her insides.

Give me a break. What about Jeff Nelson, Steve Karsay, Steve Bedrosian, Mike Perez, Paul Quantrill, Tom Gordon, Tanyon Sturtze, etc.?
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?...26id%3d4272262

http://bronxbanter.baseballtoaster.c...es/178976.html
This is a teriffic "breakdown" of the history of joe Torre ruining and abusing bullpens. And this was written before Scott Proctor.

Defending Torre where the bullpen is concerned is sheer folly

You just cant see the forest through the trees. The guy was pitching his 4th game in 5 days and he warmed up the other day. That is zero days of rest for close to a week. then he is left out there to throw almost 50 pitches, You have no ability to seperate what you want to think and reality. You should be pissed that your manager brought him in 2 games over the weekend in non save situations. Broxton is hardly immune to fatigue and torre's bullpens have a history of fading down the stretch because he overuses a few key guys. Broxton has 2 blown saves on the year after three months.



http://mikesciosciastragicillness.co...gic+illness%29

"But let’s not pretend anyone cares about any of that right now, because obviously all of the focus is on the disastrous ninth inning from Jonathan Broxton. Because, things I’m not looking forward to tomorrow? Idiot fans and bloggers (yep, there’s those too) pointing to this as some sort of proof that Broxton doesn’t have the “guts” or “courage” or whatever you want to call it to close, as though A) he hasn’t been awesome 97% of the time, B) he’s not more awesome than 97% of the rest of closers in baseball and C) the blame is his alone."

Does this guy read derby trail?

chuck , between '96 and '01 in key situations tell me where torre blew it

i just don't get it , the bullpen was the reason why they won from 96 - 01

the starting pitching while very good were matched by other teams , it was all about the bullpen and not just rivera that the yanks won those 4 titles

as the starting pitching got worse later on in the torre years , yeah the bullpen got worse

marty the guy has a 25 year track record of blowing up pitchers. Wettleand didnt blow up because he left NY was soon out of baseball. Lloyd was never effective after leaving NY. Mendoza was never any good, Nelson had 2 years of torre abuse then had 2 years of arm trouble. Mariano is about the only guy to ever survive multiple years of Torre but that guy is simply on another level, hence my comment about the how amazing it was he survived.

You are just missing the point. It isnt that the bullpens didnt perform in the short term (seriously how can a pen with Rivera as a setup guy go too wrong) but but that he consistently blows out guys by overusing them. Take Proctor for instance. In back to back years he pitched 83 games. That's half of a teams games(166 out of 324)! Basically he pitched every other game. Plus he warmed up for every appearance and most likely also warmed up on other occasions where he did not actually come into the games. Read the links. This is hardly even debatable as the evidence is overwhelming. He was doing it prior to managing the Yankees and is still doing it now. He is doing it with Broxton (last week Broxton threw more pitches than the starters), he is doing it with Troncoso (82 innings last year after 38 the prior year and his era has gone from 2.72 to 5.45 this year) and he is doing it with belisario who has also regressed after being ridden too hard last year. I know that he has 2 guys in the pen that are handled with kid gloves (Sherill and Kuo-who also broke down again after too many innings in 2008) but his pattern has been the same since he was in St Louis before he was considered a good manager. He is a very good manager who handles the starters well but like everyone else he has weaknesses and the bullpen is his. If after reading the links and seeing how he handled Broxton last week you still disagree then there probably isnt much I can do to convince you outside of someones arm falling off like Zumaya's did the other day.

He really did some nunber on Quantrill as well.

You're saying he chokes under pressure, but YOU wrote an exception. So even by your admission he has handled the pressure. WTF?

Cannon's blog posting is spot on!!!

We all know she chokes under pressure. She choked away the NLCS on 72 hours rest last year. Dodgers won both their Divisional series 3 games to nil. That gave her plenty of rest between series. In 2008, she had 8 days off before pitching 14 pitches in game 3 of the NLCS. The next night, she blew game 4. She is a choker. This is not fatigue. I would love to blame it on that, but I know this bitch will choke big games away regardless of whether she's been pitching a little, or a lot. The reason I don't complain about these other pitchers is because they don't have her ability. I know these are choke jobs. She has the talent to be almost as successful as Rivera, but she pisses it away, and she's an embarassment to her maker. She's an embarassment to the city. If you want to make the case for fatigue as the cause, then you have to be consistent, and explain why she choked on 72 hours rest in last years NLCS. She had 5 days off between series. We know exactly what she's capable of, and that's why were so upset at the bitch. Either way, they needed better relievers the last 2 years, and haven't addressed their sht (at all.) That really is the most important thing. This fkn Leprechaun owner spends way too much time thinking about sht that doesn't help them get a ring.

Yeah I guess when Rivera "choked" in the 2001 WS he never lived it down. Killed his career.

That was 1 time, and a lil blooper. It's one of the most admired at bats in World Series History. That batter's number is the 1st to be retired by the D'BACKS. Brox has been destroyed 2X by Philly in the post. Both times, it was on a horrible mistake that any High School player could of done damage with. He was absolutely ass kicked back into the dugout. It doesn't fit your theory. So, you need to bring others' failures in to try to lessen his fully-rested chokin'. If it was fatigue, I'd be the 1st to use that excuse. Don't you think I'd like to think they have some shot to close games in any future NLCS / WORLD SERIES efforts? They don't. They have no shot. They're in fkn denial. I know this pig's ways. She gets scared. Doesn't deal with it properly, and gets owned. She has plenty of talent, and can easily blow these people away. She's a mental failure of monumental proportions. For years to come, she will be the topic of many a Sports Psychology Book Chapters. You've been wrong about her in the post for the last 2 years, and may get a chance for a hat trick. I admit that her talent makes it easy to mistakenly look for excuses (Dodger brain thrust has gotten owned while making the same mistake,) but she's simply a scared bitch. It's not a difficult situation to figure out, it's simply a conclusion that people don't like. I don't like it. It's just the way it is with her. They would need like 5 of Ron Artest's Shrinks to even have a shot at changing her. For years now, the late action on her pitches has been tied to how scared she is (not how fatigued she is, or isn't.) This is so obvious to people that watch her day in /day out. We know what she can do. She's not doing it. She's scared.

http://soundcloud.com/scuds/tracks

I'm tired of that "I Love L.A." song. No wonder this woman chokes. I'll donate this example.
Bank Robbery photo is all ya getting.

I haven't really watched her pitch. Is she anything like Tom Neidenfuer? Tom Neidenfuer wasn't a bad pitcher but she always blew the big games.

Oh, I wouldn't think they're that close on talent. Brox has great stuff. When she gets tight, her secondary pitches are rarely thrown for strikes. The opposing teams know that. The fastball gets straight, loses mph, and is often down the center of the plate. There are definitely 2 different Broxton's, and it's pretty easy to see which one has come to the mound to pitch. I don't think Torre is wrong for using her when he does. However, he is very wrong for not taking her out of games. She either is gunna own the opposing batters, or she's gunna get owned by them. That's a given, but he ignores it when the choker Brox is obviously on display. That's some sort of respect thing, and it's costly. There's a lot more talent on this team than Neidenfuer had behind him. This team is underperforming in a big way. Gunna be very interesting to see if they straighten up when Donny Baseball takes over.

Nutha choke.

I knew it!!! I knew it!!!. I predicted this at 4:30 and laughed my a$$ off at 4:50 when it happened, and knew you were going to say something. He had nothing today at all ,just like Marmol didn't have anything yesterday. Marmol was victim to abuse though.

Jenks was terrible today.

LA is 40-3 with the lead after 7 innings, but that stat means nothing because they have a :rolleyes: "choke" closing for them.

Well when Rivera is done in 2 years or so Broxton should finally becoming onto the open market and we'll see how Scuds likes the next closer since JB will be in the Bronx.

....and I will continue to laugh my a$$ off when it happens.

of course if Torre keeps asking him to throw close to 50 pitches an outing he may not make it

On a different note.

I'm curious on your thoughts of Armando Benetiz before he turn 30.

I was at the Yankee/O's game when Daryl Strawberry came flying out of the dugout to fight him after he beaned Tino Martinez.

He almost always chokes in the most important situations though. They needed to get one out of four from the Cards, and stay within 4 1/2 games. It's important not to get swept in a 4 game series starting the 2nd half. It's the importance of the game that got this choker thinking too much. Guy doesn't throw enough strikes in these situations. That's why Jay was able to take ball 4 in the 9th. If the fkr would throw strikes in these choke games, then they wouldn't feel like they can take that pitch. Despite what you two think, these opposing players do know he's a choke. They aren't exactly scared of taking strike 3. The're pretty sure he's gunna miss the zone. They foul off anything in the zone, and then know they'll probably get ball 4 from the choke.

It took that many pitches, cuz she's a fkn choke. Always a lot of pitches, cuz they know she'll choke if they can just milk that cow long enough. Look at what happened. She gets 'em down in 1-2 counts, and then kets them get the count back in their favor (cuz she's a fkn choke.)

I was at that game too.