How many top-flight deep closers …
 

have even won half their career starts?


Even the Z haters have to admit that this 16-race win streak is remarkable.


1. (tie) Citation, Cigar, Zenyatta


Let the countdown to June 13 commence



If she can separate herself from those two hall-of-famers, we will party at HP 'like it's 1999". :cool:

It is remarkable, but less so on synthetic where coming from the clouds is far easier...but I agree. It is a feat.

Open it up to surfaces other than dirt, and there are quite a few. Either way, it is a remarkable streak.

Cigar faced open company. This streak will do nothing but mislead the public as to how good she is.

Will you be wearing your purple leather pants?

It is remarkable.

But don't get too ahead of yourself. When she "separates" herself from those HOF runners, it will be no more than the separation between numbers.

Seeing 17-16 in a row is not going to make anyone all of the sudden think that she's actually "separated" herself from Cigar in any meaningful way, because she'd need to get herself somewhere close to him first. What he did, where he traveled, and who he beat during his run makes Zenyatta's streak look almost downright pitiful.

Holy Bull broke down, but who exactly was great that Cigar beat?

Sorry, I wore mine in 1979!

a better question might be who beat better horses. the answer is obvious.

in general most horses of 2010 suck in comparison to 1993-94, at least in the male division where they are carted off after 6 starts.

and Cigar was a really nice horse, great horse..........he could not warm up the likes if Citation, Spectacular Bid.

so cigar beat better?

i agree. neither could zenyatta. or rachel alexandra.

of course

Cigar was a presser/stalker, I cant remember him too far back in any of his races.

Good point. True Deep closers are very rare in dirt racing so there are very few top flight horses to compare her to. Victory Gallop comes to mind as a horse who fired nearly every time.

Zenyatta's first Apple Blossom win was very impressive but she hasn't faced top horses on dirt frequently enough to really make a fair comparison to any dirt closer. Synthetic tracks have probably given her an edge but her durability and trainer's conditioning shouldn't be taken for granted in a remarkable career.

Cigar's best career race was his last one. Parked wide the entire away on a golden rail, and his class puts him in the mix right at mid-stretch. No, he wasn't trying to pass Citation, but to be so wide, after a year and a career like that, and to still have a shot down the stretch is pretty cool.

Yes, the countdown. Because if anything warrants a countdown, it's Zenyatta in her playpen beating the same five plugs she's beaten a dozen times already to get one win closer to Peppers Pride.

St Trinians could beat her

St Trinians wont be the same horse after losing to Zenyatta.

Like it ruined Life As Sweet?

If St. Trinians develops problems, it's from her own confirmation and action rather than anything Zenyatta might do to her.

Cigar ? Citation?

Hilarious. You need to report to the stupid box for at least 24 hours for that comparison. Outside of your ridiculous comparison Zenyatta will never be mentioned in the same sentence as those two....and about 50 more.

She will probably be mentioned a few times with Pepper's Pride as a nice horse who won a lot of races vs the same horses....over and over...and over...and over.

The funny part will be when the Moss's and their weak schedule for Zenyatta lose HOY 3 yrs in a row. Quality Road will be geared down and still crush her at CD this fall .

Apparently he didn't warm up Holy Bull, who pulled up when trying to go head and head with him.

It just never gets old. How sad.

Look at the early pace in the race.. 23.72, 46.48...way too fast for Holy Bull, once he realized how good Cigar was, he broke down out of sheer fright.

1995 Donn + Post Race: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsUUesICLMg

You say that but I once knew this poster who argued that very thing....his name was ma........i

Canada's biggest Cigar fan has been MIA for a while..

Greg hurt his feelings.

Comparing to Cigar and Citation is not nearly as hilarious as your comparing her to Pepper's Pride. I must have missed where Pepper's Pride won the Breeder's Cup Classic.

I was and am a huge Cigar fan. I'm looking at a signed picture of him winning the '95 Woodward over my desk. But he ran during a weak period for older horses. Open company, yes. But pretty weak open company.

I'm also not blind to the over-careful handling of Zenyatta's schedule. But they did announce far in advance that she'd be at the Apple Blossom this year. And she's targeting another run in the Classic. Do I wish they'd chosen a more challenging race for her next outing? Absolutely. But if she stays healthy and keeps that BC Classic date, I can forgive them for the kid gloves treatment.

Personal Ensign is still spoken of with reverence. Yet she never raced against males. At a minimum, Zenyatta will be deservedly remembered as one of the great mares of American racing.


--Dunbar

She won the Whitney against males. and she beat up on MUCH better horses, male or female.

Personal Ensign won the Whitney, defeating Gulch and King's Swan.

Gulch (out of his depth at 1 1/8) and King's Swan. She didn't exactly face Alysheba and that crew.

The females she defeated were top shelf.

true, but who exactly did Zenyatta face last year in the BC that would be better than the Whitney crew?

The females PE faces were in a different league than what Z or RA for that matter has faced. Winning Colors is better than all the horses Z and RA have beaten.

She beat Gio Ponti on his preferred surface, don't ya know?

Who she beat in the BC is irrelevant though cause it was on synthetic. Winning as a deep closer on the dirt with regularity is tough. On turf and synthetics it is common. On dirt she has beat nothing but Ginger Punch who ran so poorly that day she was beaten by Brownie Points.

Gulch was out of his depth at 1 1/8 miles? He did beat Gone West in the Wood.


And, please, a little respect for the mighty Swan.

Still making me live that one down? And I thought the Ghostzapper pic smoothed that one over. :D

Did Cigar have good penmenship? :D

Say what you all want no one has beaten Zenyata. Not many horses can say that. She did beat the Derby winner, Belmont winner and many other grade 1 winners. Give the horse some respect.