Will it pass?
 

Quick, non-scientific poll

lol..real objective choices there

They're all true.

Yes, I could have said "The Slaughter Rule Change" instead of "parlimentary trickery".

And since that technically is not "passed" under the constitution, all that is required is a lawsuit to get it to the Supreme Court. I think that case would progress quickly, like "Bush V. Gore" in 2000 because of the importance of it.

And people will, if they have the money, fly elsewhere for procedures when the care here starts to go down the toilet, as it must. Why? Because 46% of doctors say that they are considering leaving medicine if this passes, and adding many million of new insured people who will not pay premiums will put more patients against less doctors. That will result in Soviet-style lines, like the Russians used to wait in for toilet paper, and similar to the Canadian debacle of a healthcare system now.

As I said, all are possible outcomes for this legislation.

both houses of congress are allowed to set their own rules. whomever is getting you all revved up for a supreme court challange is doing you a disservice.

i won't engage in a pointless exercise like guessing if the bill passes. it's a close call and it either will or won't.

but if it passes there is exactly zero chance the supreme court gets involved in the mechanics of how the legislative branch chose to do that.

I think you need to read up on the Senate and House Parlimentary rules, before you get all hyped up on "technically not passed-lawsuit" nonsense. That's just not true.

No one disputes that both chambers can and do define parliamentary rules. The question is whether the "voting for a rule to declare an unvoted piece of legislation as passed" violates the intent of the Constitution. That is certainly a legitimate question for the Supreme Court, and given the contentious and sweeping nature of the bill, I expect to see that angle used.

The best bet of those who support the bill, even you Riot, is that the bill pass on a straight up and down vote as we've been passing legislation for 231 years, and then the President can sign it. Anything other than that will not get support or even compliance from those of us opposed.

no. it's not.

The judicial branch has no business dictating how the legislative branch does it's buisness. it would be a sweeping change to the balance of power between the branches of government if the supreme court inserted itself in the legislative process as you suggest.

and it's not going to happen. i don't know what blog you're reading that suggests this is a possibility but it simply isn't.

i'm not into political astrology which is why i stay away from guessing what happens on the vote. but this isn't astrology. you have as much chance of this happening as the birthers do of removing obama because he's not a natural born citizen.

They do this every time they rule a law unconstitutional.

Are you saying that the Supreme Court has the power to judge the laws, but not how the law was "passed", even if the passage mechanism may not itself have been implemented in a constitutional way?

they rule on the content of a law when they rule it unconstitutional.

they would be ruling on the process the legislative branch used (not the content of the law itself) if they did what you suggest.

so yes, i'm saying the judicial branch of government has no say in how the legislative decides to do it's buisness.

if a majority of the house makes a rule, it takes a majority of the house (not the supreme court) to change that rule.

what you're suggesting (the judicial branch deciding how the legislative should operate) is what's actually unconstitional.

I'm only saying that because it is also the Constitution that determines how the powers are divided among the branches and what limits are on those powers.

It is possible for the legislature to adopt rules or parliamentary procedure that would in itself be unconstitutional. The Supreme Court would have to be the one to rein that in because the legislative branch will not do that for itself.

Usually it's the Supreme Court through judicial review. The President ideally would not sign a bill into law when he thinks the procedure to get it to his desk was unconstitutional. That's not going to happen here.

The branches by design do keep an eye on each other with regard to the constitutionality of their actions.

this is the incorrect assumption that leads to the wrong conclusion.

rules the legislative branch adopts to govern itself aren't subject to review by any other branch of government. a single senator recently stopped the senate in it's tracks for a week. no one that i'm aware of questioned the constitutionality of senate rules that allow this.

and for a good reason.

the constitutional crisis would occur when the judiciary inserted itself into the process of making laws instead of simply reviewing the law itself.

I believe Social Security is unConstitutional

and this bs reform ain't even close

meh.

i'll start to worry after you receive your judicial appointment.

They may be able to argue that it's "passage" was unconstitutional. I took out a personal health care policy today. It's called AR-15. Pelosi said something about kicking down doors, and I thought that was offensive. I took it as a threat. Not only to me but to anyone who understands what freedom is, or that it is our birthright, and we are compelled to protect it, at all times at any cost it must be defended.

that's not the least bit hysterical.

you might want to back away from the angry right wing blogs for a day or two if this gets passed. i'd hate to see you fly a plane into a building.

I wish they would vote soon im getting tired of seeing Pelosi on TV. If this bill does pass I guess you can say we no longer live in a Democratic society. Being forced to do something they a person doesnt want to do doesn't sound like freedom to me. If this bill does pass I would hate to be a Democrat up for election. Im just glad I have way better medical insurance for me and my family than this worthless bogus insurance is going to be.

Are you serious?

:zz: It appears that what is actually in the Senate bill (hardly anything) or the proposed reconciliation amendments (I posted that two or three times) remains a mystery to some.

It seems what some of you "know" about healthcare reform are just some scary ultra-right rumors from last summer.

None of which is in there :zz:

I don't want my neighbor owning a gun, but it looks like I won't have a choice there. How come all the bullsh*t the Republicans passed that I thought was an infridgement on my rights is part of a Democratic Society, but something you don't like is not? Typical double standard right wing crap

You don't like your neighbors? Me neither, but I'm armed:p !

Thank you for proving my point

"I took out a personal health care policy today. It's called AR-15. Pelosi said something about kicking down doors, and I thought that was offensive. I took it as a threat. Not only to me but to anyone who understands what freedom is, or that it is our birthright, and we are compelled to protect it, at all times at any cost it must be defended."

were you?

If we were neighbors I'm sure we would get along great.

i own a lot of guns, doesn't make me any more dangerous than i would be with none. i'm not sure how owning a gun infringes on anyone else's rights. but you thinking no one should own one, and thereby forcing me to give mine up would most definitely infringe my rights. you don't like them, don't own them. it's funny, those of us who have them, couldn't care less if you own one or not. but you can't return that favor i guess?

Unless I was your State Senator:wf

Yes.

who said no one should own a gun?

parading that ownership around as a signal of your opposition to my government is another issue.

then yes.

My State (not Fed) Senator is the only politician in office that I ever voted for. He helped me in a DMV matter that was incorrect and wouldn't even go away with a Judges signature. Twice.

Mine too;)

Deb..that's you..I'm not going to take this thread down the gun right's path, but it's MY right not to have someone who shouldn't have a gun, have one. Just because you can, doesn't mean my neighbor should, even if he can. Two wrongs don't make a right. And I'll leave it alone, but there ain't much that I opppose more than the right to own something that can kill me..but, I digress..

Where were we?

Do you like Pit Bulls?

Since when is kicking down doors a liberal policy?

we're all nazi socialist terrorist's now. you didn't hear?

since when did right wingers turn into p ussies that get intimidated by small women?

Seriously?...of course not

But at least they can't kill me through my car window.

Unless yours are trained better

We were at, "What's really in the health care reform bill aside from Government Takeover Of Our Lives Forcing Us To Be Reviewed By Death Panels And Needing Guns To Defend Ourselves From The Speaker Of The House"

My personal favorite is that I will be able to purchase the same excellent insurance coverage my Congressman and Senator now enjoy. And when I buy that policy they will not be able to tell me that, if I fall and break a hip thirty years from now, it won't be covered because I had a pre-existing condition (arthritis in a thumb) from when I was in my 20's.

PS, see Obama interviewed on Faux News.

From the House Dem blog:

I saw Madam Speaker holding up about 20 pages of something or another and looking at as if it were her newborn baby. I hope that wasn't supposed to be the Healthcare bill cuz that would be about 2600 pages short. Plus ammendments.

it's all she could hold in her skinny arms and you're worried about her kicking down your door?

i'd get another high caliber weapon if i were you. she could actually be carrying a well armed newborn when she comes flying through your door.

They can kill you while you are watering your flowers.
I can't stand them but my neighbor seems to like them a lot, he has several and they are getting to be a pain in the @ss. There have been situations. Believe me I love animals.

I would just close my eyes and squeeze her head til it popped like the Botox laden zit that it is.