Question re: Sky Mesa
 

Ok, I'm having a disagreement at Thoroughbred Champions. We were discussing Pulpit and his sons as sires and I said (and I adore Pulpit) that Sky Mesa is mediocre at best (well, that's the essence of what I said). Others think he's a bargain and they started listing some of his stakes horses (which anyone can do with any sire). I can't think of one really top-class horse that Sky Mesa has sired, but those folks seem to think breeders love him and for a reason.

Am I wrong? Thanks!

You are wrong to get into disagreements/discussions/arguments on TBC.

Yes

Other than General Quarters, who have his G1 winners been? I think there are one or two more, but I can't really think of who they are.
I would say he seems pretty good for a mid-range sire, but hasn't been astoundingly great thus far.

Did that Klesaris filly win a G1?

Ok, care to explain why?

Probably so. Someone is just trying to make the argument that Sky Diva ran well in the Demoiselle a couple of years ago because she finished 3rd. Ugh - she was awful that day.

Thanks!

He's not awful, but IMO he's no great shakes - as Miraja said.

The big question: Is Jas' avatar a self portrait?

Who are you measuring Sky Mesa against?

He was the leading second crop stallion in 2008 and was the second leading third crop sire last year.

His oldest horses are only 5 years old so you are judging him on three crops of horses.

He had 74 winners last year
His runners have earned $10 million dollars after a soft 1st year of only 500k.

General Quarters (Gr1)
Terrain (Gr3)
Sky Diva (Gr1)
Skylighter (gr2)
Storm Mesa (gr2)
Satans Quick Chick (gr2)
Third Dawn (sw/gsp)
Sky Haven (sw/gsp)
Beethoven (sw/gsp)
Thiskyhasnolimit (sw/gsp)
Matchless orinda (sw)
Sky Mystic (sw)
Join in the Dance (gsp)
Processors Turf (gsp)
Formidible (gsp)
Stealin kisses (gsp)
Argyle Pink (gsp)

his yearlings averaged 88k last year
his 2 yos in training avg 100k last year and 248k this year


Yeah he sucks

So one horse was "awful" in your opinion in one race after that same horse had already wne a grade 1 race and finished third in the Breeders Cup. This is the basis of your argument that Sky Mesa 'is no great shakes' as a stallion?

Does he sire sound offspring ?

Considering his ability at two and his VERY good pedigree and female family, it's fair to say that more was expected but Chuck is right. His babies have sold pretty well and while he hasn't has a "big" horse he's done OK. The ones that can run a little seem to be able to get you to stakes.

That's not what I said at all, but if you want to think that was my point, go right ahead.

Just what is your problem? I asked a perfectly reasonable question and was polite in doing so; I don't need a medal for that, but I sure as heck don't deserve the kind of response you gave me. Yeah, that sure is a list of great horses. Most of them are mediocre and if they were in graded stakes races, you wouldn't give them any sort of shot. Formidable? Is he high on your list of top sprinters this year? Seriously, take any stallion and he's going to have horses that placed in stakes. Most of this board thinks Friesan Fire is a joke - at best a grade 3 horse, and even at that, only at the Fair Grounds. What does that make GQ? Are you going to tell me he's a top class horse? Skylighter won a weak grade 2 and Storm Mesa couldn't beat grade 1 fillies every time she ran in a grade 1 race. Join in the Dance hasn't won in a dogs age; what's so special about him? You make it sound like this list is full of top horses - it's not.

I think he must own a stableful of Sky Mesas because he took my question way too personally. Sky Mesa has not sired a lot of top class horses. If you want a sprinter, are you breeding to him? No. If you want a classic horse, are you breeding to him? No. If you want a grass horse, are you breeding to him? No. He's ok, but the whole point is that on TBC, they made him out to be some great success story. Tapit is already a much better sire than Sky Mesa.

Sky Mesa was doing HORRIBLE with his first crop of 2yo's in Feb of their 3yo season.

It was at the time of the Fasig Tipton Calder 2yo sale ... and the craziest thing happened. The under-tack show was like a freaking showcase of Sky Mesa's like nothing you've ever seen before.

I had something like 5 different Sky Mesa offspring in the top 20 most impressive breezes. I was telling people that if you had to approach the sale as a buyer ... without a doubt the best thing to do would be to find out who the lowest regarded Sky Mesa offspring was of those 5 on looks - and buy him.

They might pay up for the best looking Sky Mesa of the five - they might even pay up for the 2nd best looking Sky Mesa - but they ain't paying up for the one who's 5th of 5 on looks and pedigree because he was doing so dismally at stud.

As it turned out ... the 5th cheapest of that sensational band of Sky Mesa offspring was none other than Ky Derby pace setter Join in the Dance.

He RNA'd for just 90K despite showing super raw speed in his preview.

I believe Grade 1 winner Sky Diva was 4th at 250K. I know that Mesa Sunrise sold for 800K ... he was the most expensive of the Sky Mesa's at that sale. His biggest achievement is nothing more than winning a Saratoga alw race in 1:15 flat for 6.5fs. One of the ones that sold for like 300K went to Japan and I believe is a stakes winner over there.

note to self:

when someone wants to know if they're wrong, don't answer!

Chances are ... if she posts it .. it's probably wrong.

Mesa Sunrise is fast, but hes got no heart.

Um, no. I asked a question and Cannon Shell replied in a unnecessarily sarcastic manner. I don't care, but why would anyone want to ask a question on a message board if they are going to get their head bitten off?

I take it you think Sky Mesa is a good sire. Let me ask you - how many of those horses on that list he provided are really top class horses? Very few, if any.

That's what the haters say about Randy Moss.

But yeah - he had to have a big edge on the other SM offspring on looks - because he's the one of the bunch they all paid up for...and it helped some pretty nice ones at that sale fall through the cracks price wise.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=24

lol

seriously, i was only poking fun at you and cannon...i think it's too soon to know what he'll turn out to be, considering. hell, not long ago people thought mineshaft was a bust-and now he's got several hot horses.

yeah, i probably would be.

I think if Cannon hadn't responded like he did, I would have been more open to what he was saying. I never said Sky Mesa sucked - I just said I didn't think he was all that great. He also completely missed my point about Sky Diva - and then made it sound like I was ignorant.

I will say that maybe I'm holding the expectations I had for him against him. Just because he's not a leading sire doesn't mean he's not had success. If I look at it from the perspective that most sires don't even have the succeess he's had, then yes - he's been a fine sire. Are his oldest horses 5 ? I think so.... I suppose his best foals should be upcoming as they are the offspring of mares that were bred to him after his super 2nd year

Mineshaft is a weird story. His oldest foals are only 5, but he really has been mediocre. I hope that this year indicates a turn around for him because AP Indy isn't going to last forever; with his fertility problems, he may be pensioned sooner than we think. As far as I'm concerned, the more sires to carry on the Seattle Slew line, the better. I'm interested to see if they'll let Discreetly Mine rate in the LA Derby. I suspect not because Castellano made a point to say he's a speedy horse.

I tell ya - Satans Quick Chick is one Sky Mesa filly that is a nice one. Let's see what she does tomorrow at Tampa.

You said it didn't you?

What is wrong with the response? You dont like facts or figures that may support the opposing point of view?

Perhaps you dont think much of the horses on the list which is fine but they are stakes winners and graded stakes placed horses which means they have been able to produce good form at the highest levels of racing. That is tangible and somewhat measurable. It is easy on horseracing boards to say that they suck or arent much but they have outperformed 95% of their peers on the track.

Not to mention that his horses on a whole have earned and the babies sell well for a stallion in the 25-35 range.

Only someone who didnt understand the racing game or breeding business would label Sky Mesa stallion career as anything less than very succcessful.

There are some sharp people that post in the Breeding/sales section of TBC.

And for the record I dont nor have I owned a single Sky Mesa (regretfully)

What does Tapit's success have to do with Sky Mesa's?

Translation ....

They suck a lot less than others.

Again how did I bite your head off? There were 60 lines of response and one small sarcastic remark at the end. Sorry for providing data that backed up my opinion.

On horseracing boards there are only like 8 horses in training that arent "suck worthy"

I can only think of 7.

You did this all by yourself.


???

Well if someone loses today that shouldnt you will be right on the mark

That's now five unanswered posts from you where you've quoted her. Why don't you just ask her for a clam shot or something? .. you're probably just as likely to get that much from her as you are a fruitful debate.

How many QB's are there that fans think don't suck?

I'm sure Jamarcus Russell outperformed 95% of his peers to play the position.

I missed that originally and it was just too good a quote to pass up

Actually he isnt even stakes placed