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-   -   All of a sudden the editors from Bloodhorse... (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33311)

The Indomitable DrugS 12-18-2009 11:26 PM

All of a sudden the editors from Bloodhorse...
 
Look like the sharpest collection of analytical and thoroughbred handicapping minds ever assembled.

I know this appeared in another thread ... but it truly deserves its own thread...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../horse.racing/

Look who is #20.

Indian Charlie 12-18-2009 11:33 PM

I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned page 2 of the article.

NTamm1215 12-18-2009 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned page 2 of the article.

Decace?

NT

Indian Charlie 12-18-2009 11:46 PM

I didn't even notice that typo.

The whole of page two is pretty insipid.

The Indomitable DrugS 12-18-2009 11:51 PM

While the article was extremely funny in a very sad way - being Insipid and having an obvious typo in a title are among the kindest things you can possibly say about it.

VOL JACK 12-18-2009 11:55 PM

I do agree on one award they gave out.

Worst Invention: Synthetic tracks.
Although I don't think they were invented this decade....maybe mandated.

The Indomitable DrugS 12-19-2009 12:01 AM

Quote:

19. BIRDSTONE
He's here not just for his stunning upset that denied Smarty Jones the 2004 Triple Crown (after which trainer Nick Zito said to Smarty's John Servis, "I'm sorry'"), but for his impact in the breeding shed. In 2009, Birdstone's progeny won two legs of the Triple Crown, as Mine That Bird stunned the field in the Kentucky Derby and Summer Bird won the Belmont.
Madaglia D' Oro and Street Cry were both clearly better horses and have been better sires than Birdstone .. and they didn't make his list.

However, the fact that anyone would rate race horses on the basis of how well they've done as stallions is extremely sad.

Spectacular Bid was 24-for-24 between the distances of 7fs and 1 1/4 miles - he won 14 Grade 1's - set a slew of track records and not only had ran the fastest ragozin sheet figure on record ... but his fastest rag number stood for over 20 years.

Bid was an absolutely terrible sire. Is that supposed to diminish him as a race horse?

Even though Distorted Humor got obliterated against Skip Away and Formal Gold ... is he somehow better than them as a race horse because he's been a super stallion and they've sired a bunch of turds?

The Indomitable DrugS 12-19-2009 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK
I do agree on one award they gave out.

Worst Invention: Synthetic tracks.
Although I don't think they were invented this decade....maybe mandated.

I think this guys top 20 list deserves to win the award for worst invention of the decade.

philcski 12-19-2009 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Look like the sharpest collection of analytical and thoroughbred handicapping minds ever assembled.

I know this appeared in another thread ... but it truly deserves its own thread...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../horse.racing/

Look who is #20.

worst list EVARRRRRR

VOL JACK 12-19-2009 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I think this guys top 20 list deserves to win the award for worst invention of the decade.

True.


Did I win the award for best PM ever yesterday??

letswastemoney 12-19-2009 12:12 AM

I agree his list is an embarrassment. I love Funny Cide, but there are horses that are better than him.

I also don't agree with giving the blimp cam an award, since the blimp view has ruined the live race by making it impossible to see where your horse is.

The Indomitable DrugS 12-19-2009 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK
True.


Did I win the award for best PM ever yesterday??


She's nice....but she's no Lexus.

I had a 10 minute conversation with a really cute sandwhich artist today ... and she gave me free food.

I felt loved.

VOL JACK 12-19-2009 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
She's nice....but she's no Lexus.

I had a 10 minute conversation with a really cute sandwhich artist today ... and she gave me free food.

I felt loved.

How did her Tuna smell?

RolloTomasi 12-19-2009 12:28 AM

To me, it seems like its just a list of the most memorable horses, not necessarily the best runners. The author doesn't make any claims to picking these horses strictly on race performance.

Instead, he's seemingly biased towards horses prominent in the media (of which Funny Cide and Pepper's Pride are good examples). In that respect, his list is fairly decent, if pointless at the same time.

Some more glaring errors:

Saint Liam was unraced at 3
High Chaparral was the only 2-time BC Turf winner (also he dead-heated with a horse named Johan).

The Indomitable DrugS 12-19-2009 12:35 AM

I've seen far better work from far less important publications get TomoJay'd in brilliant fashion.

RolloTomasi 12-19-2009 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I've seen far better work from far less important publications get TomoJay'd in brilliant fashion.

Fair enough. You follow other sports closely, so I'm sure you hold SI to higher standards. Once I saw the flubs I took the whole thing with a grain of salt.

Even if the choices were ridiculous, the commentary was unoffensive, which isn't the case with some of our more prominent turf writers.

Plus, I watched a whole afternoon of TVG so I've pretty much been browbeaten into cattle-like docility for the night.

Danzig 12-19-2009 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie
I'm surprised nobody has yet mentioned page 2 of the article.

oops, didn't realize that tripe had more than a page devoted to it...

Dunbar 12-19-2009 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Look like the sharpest collection of analytical and thoroughbred handicapping minds ever assembled.

I know this appeared in another thread ... but it truly deserves its own thread...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../horse.racing/

Look who is #20.

Tough crowd here at DT. Aside from 19 & 20, I think it's a decent list. And if you stretch "Top Horse" to something beyond "Fastest Horse", even #20 is acceptable.

Any list that puts the Derby-hyped horses below non-household-name older horses like Invasor, Tiznow and Ghostzapper is fine with me, especially one that leaves Bernardini off the list.

Page 2 was also okay, IMO, though Borel's honorable mention was a big stretch, to say the least. I didn't even mind being reminded of my near miss on Closing Argument at 72-1. (it's not a redboard if you don't collect, is it?).

I'd be interested in your own answers to the various categories on page 2, and how far down you'd put the answers in SI's list.

--Dunbar

Sightseek 12-19-2009 09:09 AM

Bellamy Road deserves the Honorable mention for Best Runaway Performance behind Rachel Alexandra's Kentucky Oaks.

Afleet Alex's Preakness deserves the Holy Mackeral! How Did He Do That Award.

Linny 12-19-2009 09:56 AM

High Chaparral deat heated with Johan? No wonder Mill Ridge wont take my calls.;)

RockHardTen1985 12-19-2009 11:39 AM

IMO Big Brown being on this list is the biggest joke of all.

hoovesupsideyourhead 12-19-2009 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985
IMO Big Brown being on this list is the biggest joke of all.

why is that.. he was clearly the best in his year..if he wasnt handled by people who arent liked he would have been a sensation.. and rags winning the belmont should be higher imo

RockHardTen1985 12-19-2009 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
why is that.. he was clearly the best in his year..if he wasnt handled by people who arent liked he would have been a sensation.. and rags winning the belmont should be higher imo

I dont care about Dutrow, Big Brown sucked that crop was so bad and made him look good.
Summer Bird and Quality Road are both better then Big Brown, Barbaro and Bernardini are both better. I would rather any of these 4 get on that list over Big Brown.

miraja2 12-19-2009 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Look who is #20.

Words cannot describe how absolutely ludicrous....how monumentally stupid....how....

:mad: :mad: :mad:

She shouldn't be in the top 1000, let alone the top 20.

miraja2 12-19-2009 12:35 PM

The "race of the decade" question is an interesting one to think about.
Off the top of my head I'd give the 2004 Woodward the nod before SI's choice of the '07 Belmont.....but I may be forgetting some other obvious ones.

miraja2 12-19-2009 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar
if you stretch "Top Horse" to something beyond "Fastest Horse", even #20 is acceptable.

If you stretch it to mean something other than a horse that was fast.....or won a meaningful race.....or faced a horse that ran as if it possessed 4 legs....then.....let me think............nope. There are STILL dozens of other horses more deserving.

hoovesupsideyourhead 12-19-2009 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985
I dont care about Dutrow, Big Brown sucked that crop was so bad and made him look good.
Summer Bird and Quality Road are both better then Big Brown, Barbaro and Bernardini are both better. I would rather any of these 4 get on that list over Big Brown.

qr is better than big brown ok ill stop now and not waste my time i agree that bern should be in the mix

RockHardTen1985 12-19-2009 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
qr is better than big brown ok ill stop now and not waste my time i agree that bern should be in the mix

Dunkirk would have won Big Browns Florida Derby.

Gander 12-19-2009 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
The "race of the decade" question is an interesting one to think about.
Off the top of my head I'd give the 2004 Woodward the nod before SI's choice of the '07 Belmont.....but I may be forgetting some other obvious ones.

Mine would be an easy choice...Casron Hollow and You in the 2002 Test Stakes at Saratoga. Hands down the best race I have ever seen.

RockHardTen1985 12-19-2009 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander
Mine would be an easy choice...Casron Hollow and You in the 2002 Test Stakes at Saratoga. Hands down the best race I have ever seen.

Great Great race, but Im not sure race of the decade....
I think to be race of the decade it has to be a bigger race on a bigger stage.
Rags-Belmont, Curlin, Street Sense-Preakness, Zenyatta-Classic

cakes44 12-19-2009 02:44 PM

That 2nd page is quite the steaming pile. Borel? The Assman had a better decade than Frankel? I'd like to see the Grade 1 tally between the two if anyone can find it.

The Indomitable DrugS 12-19-2009 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44
That 2nd page is quite the steaming pile. Borel? The Assman had a better decade than Frankel? I'd like to see the Grade 1 tally between the two if anyone can find it.


Most Graded Stakes wins by a trainer this decade:

Todd Pletcher 307
Robert Frankel 299 (<-- his asst trainer has 3 since he died)
Bob Baffert 164
Bill Mott 143
Steve Asmussen 104
Christophe Clement 100
Kiaran McLaughlin 85
Richard Mandella 75
D. Wayne Lukas 69
Doug O'Neill 66
Richard Dutrow, Jr. 64
Claude R. McGaughey 63

The Indomitable DrugS 12-19-2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar
Tough crowd here at DT. Aside from 19 & 20, I think it's a decent list. And if you stretch "Top Horse" to something beyond "Fastest Horse", even #20 is acceptable.

Any list that puts the Derby-hyped horses below non-household-name older horses like Invasor, Tiznow and Ghostzapper is fine with me, especially one that leaves Bernardini off the list.

Page 2 was also okay, IMO, though Borel's honorable mention was a big stretch, to say the least. I didn't even mind being reminded of my near miss on Closing Argument at 72-1. (it's not a redboard if you don't collect, is it?).

I'd be interested in your own answers to the various categories on page 2, and how far down you'd put the answers in SI's list.

1 through 18 is pretty damn bad. He opted to make a complete fool of himself with #20.

People who don't follow horse racing religiously will see a list like that and trust it - after all - we are talking about America's sports authority SI.

I don't care one bit that the writer and editor don't know Johar or that they think Saint Liam was unraced at age three - when in fact he made nine starts at age 3.

The real travesty is that you have a writer who specializes in fluff pieces and human interest stories trying his hand at something that requires hardcore analytical and handicapping skills. On top of that - you have the nations most trusted sports magazine willing to publish it.

miraja2 12-19-2009 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985
Great Great race, but Im not sure race of the decade....
I think to be race of the decade it has to be a bigger race on a bigger stage.
Rags-Belmont, Curlin, Street Sense-Preakness, Zenyatta-Classic

You're kidding with that one right?
I'll take two future HOYs battling nose to nose down the entire stretch of Belmont Park in '04 over that race any day.

Gander 12-19-2009 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
You're kidding with that one right?
I'll take two future HOYs battling nose to nose down the entire stretch of Belmont Park in '04 over that race any day.

You cant possibly give any race run on the junk the nod over all the brilliant ones that took place on the real stuff. Thats like saying the best football games of the decade took place in a dome. Its just not real.

Dunbar 12-19-2009 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
1 through 18 is pretty damn bad. He opted to make a complete fool of himself with #20.

I think 1-18 is a decent list. If you and say 10 other knowledgeable posters here independently put up "Top 18" lists, I'm guessing the SI list would not stick out as the odd-list-out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
People who don't follow horse racing religiously will see a list like that and trust it - after all - we are talking about America's sports authority SI.

People who don't follow horseracing religiously will spend at most 10 seconds on that list, and they will immediately forget any horse whose name they don't recognize, which is all but maybe Funny Cide, Smarty Jones, Afleet Alex, Big Brown, and, possibly-but-I-doubt-it, this year's fillies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
I don't care one bit that the writer and editor don't know Johar or that they think Saint Liam was unraced at age three - when in fact he made nine starts at age 3.

I'm willing to forgive the mis-info on St. Liam. At least he INCLUDED St. Liam, a horse whose name less than 0.1% of sports fans outside of this board would even recognize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
The real travesty is that you have a writer who specializes in fluff pieces and human interest stories trying his hand at something that requires hardcore analytical and handicapping skills. On top of that - you have the nations most trusted sports magazine willing to publish it.

Look, this isn't health care or climate change. "travesty" is a little strong. It's a Top 20 list. People make these lists at the end of a year or end of a decade. It gives us something to argue about. We should be delighted that SI even puts together a top 20 horse list.

--Dunbar

Dunbar 12-19-2009 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2
If you stretch it to mean something other than a horse that was fast.....or won a meaningful race.....or faced a horse that ran as if it possessed 4 legs....then.....let me think............nope. There are STILL dozens of other horses more deserving.

How about I just stretch it to mean a horse that raced 19 times without ever finding an excuse to not win? How many more deserving are there then?

Pepper's Pride wouldn't be in my own "Top 20", but I'm not offended by someone putting her at #20 in his own list.

--Dunbar

Gander 12-19-2009 06:10 PM

At least they got the "worst innovation" being synthetic tracks right. That was an easy one. Ruined California racing.

Gander 12-19-2009 06:19 PM

Congaree belongs on this list as well. If he faced some of the duds Ghostzapper and Curlin did, he would have won twice as many races. He was a superior animal. These are some of some of his tidbits...

Horse of the Year runner-up; Eclipse Finalist as champion older male and champion sprinter

Fastest miler of 2002 on dirt (1:33.11)

One of the most versatile runners in history (G1 wins at 3, 4, & 5, 7f to 1 1/4 miles)

Only horse in history to win Cigar Mile-G1 back-to-back

Made 22 consecutive starts in Graded stakes

2nd fastest mile in Kentucky Derby history

Leading North American based male from the Blushing Groom line

$3.2 million earner and five-time Grade I winner

Sightseek 12-19-2009 06:22 PM

HRTV just gave their endorsement of this list. :D


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