ramon and rajiv
 

Ramon - bad ride in the 7th

Maragh - terrible ride in the last at NY

both on favorites

can someone help these guys to give better rides? maybe some lessons from Angel in the am's will help

That's funny, Ramon just passed Angel for 2nd most wins in NY in a year today.

that doesn't mean anything when you get the best mounts everyday

he should go to angel and learn how to ride better

i don't know which ride was worse , today on JJ's horse or Gio Ponit in the BCC

Wrong on both accounts. If you really think that Ramon Dominguez gets the best mounts you don't follow NY racing too closely. He is not the 1st call rider for any of the strongest barns but picks up a lot of 2nd fiddle mounts for some of the better ones. He rides a lot of races, which a lot of the mainstays don't anymore because of their age or feelings about their own prowess as riders.

And for the umpteenth f*ing time, his ride on Gio Ponti was flawless.

NT

Wait what part of the ride on Gio Ponti was bad?

The ride he gave Gio Ponti wins that race 99% of the time if not for a fantastic horse like Zenyatta. You know Smith actually followed Dominguez in that race into the stretch right? I'm not sure what you want these guys to do. They both have been nothing short of spectacular on a daily basis. Ramon gets very good mounts because he is the best there is right now. People said he only would do well at Aqueduct because of the weak colony, and he then went on to dominate at Belmont and Saratoga. You don't have one of the greatest years in NY history as a jockey without being a fantastic rider. Sorry they don't cut it for you.

Gales has this half-baked ridiculous idea that the inside was terrible and Ramon should have deliberately tried to move GP outside. He even went so far as to call Dominguez an "inner dirt specialist" even though he won the riding titles at Belmont spring-summer, Saratoga, and the Belmont Fall Championship meet.

It's again worth noting that plenty of horse who were successful raced on the inside on BC Saturday.

NT

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet. Unless you can compete in big races and win consistently at the top then you havent arrived yet. He is not the only one though. There are a lot of jockeys who are way overated and get more credit than they actually deserve. Aaron Gryder and Richard Migliore are some to be mentioned.

Yes he has.

He's a no brainer if you're talking about the top 5 in the country.

He's probably the best turf jockey of the last 20 years.

And I can assure you that he's no better a rider now than he was 5 years ago.

There is no way you can compare either of those guys to Ramon. Who exactly are the "top level" riders that Ramon just couldn't stack up with? Just curious.

Drugs, did you follow him and Rose in Delaware before he came every day to New York. The two of them were pretty even at Del. Park but it does seem that Ramon makes smoother and smarter decisions than he did consistently on that circuit. It's very rare that you see him lose a race now he could have won when you watch the replay. He used to force things occasionally and get himself in places patience would have solved. But this is splitting hairs. He's certainly no liability on anyone's horse now. They don't give away those Saratoga titles for being any less than first rate. It's great to see how well respected he is now. I am not so sure that Rose wouldn't have been right there with him if not for that unfortunate incident that cost him on so many levels a couple years back.

I think Dominguez was always a lot better than Rose.

Dominguez is one of very few jocks that is a real difference maker when he rides a turf route.

Dominguez in turf routes since '99: 437-for-1,832 (23.9% wins) $2.37 ROI

Pretty scary numbers for a jockey. If you simply bet $100 to win on every turf route Ramon has ridden since '99 .. you'd be ahead $33,892 right now.


Rose is an excellent turf jockey as well ... lifetime $1.98 ROI in turf routes .. but Dominguez was a freak. 8 out of 10 years from '99 to '08 he turned a flat bet profit.. and very significant flat bet profits in 6 of those 8 years.

For Example: Gomez, Desormaux, Mike Smith, Edgar Prado, Leparoux, Bejarano are some who for sure rank highr than Dominguez. Its nice that Dominguez wins jockey title after jockey title but when the big days come he is a no-show. The jockeys mentioned above dont win jockey titles like dominguez but when the big races come they consistently show up and produce winners.

Dominguez did win the Saratoga title but Castellano, Garcia, Prado, Maragh and Desourmaux each had more stakes win than he. For a guy that rides as many races and who wins that many races, his graded stakes wins are very minimal. To his credit, he is very young and has an eternity to move to the top.

He is the Steve Nash of horse racing: Great in the regular season but no-show in the playoffs:(

Not sure he is the best turf rider in the last 20 yrs. That is a hyperbole. I have heard that about every other jockey being touted as one.

Also, Leparoux hasnt even been riding for 5 yrs in the states and yet he has achieved more than Dominguez. At this point, you can argue if Dominguez is better than Russel Baze or not.

I don't understand where these two names came from. Gryder is trying to grind it out on the West coast and the Mig has been back and forth between both coasts and he only gets a few mounts a day. I just don't get the comparison.

Wouldn't this be more of a function of an agent getting good stakes mounts for a rider? He does have 5 or 6 G1's this year in races like the Arlington Million and Man O War so it's not as though he is just non-exsistent as you're implying. And I think he had the most stakes wins at Saratoga if I'm not mistaken (not just graded stakes but all stakes). Agree to disagree but IMO he is the best you can do right now in terms of riders in any race.

The comparison is that Migliore and Gryder use to dominate the AQU riding title (like Dominguez does now) years back but when the big jockeys show up for Belmont and Saratoga, they are a no-show, especialy in big races (like Dominguez is now)

What are you talking about? Dominguez won the Saratoga riding title and set the record for wins at the spring-summer Belmont meet.

The argument you're trying to make could have been made in April when Dominguez was JUST an inner track specialist. He has proven this year that he can ride all over the NY circuit.

The very fact that you put Bejarano and Prado ahead of Dominguez is laughable. Prado is one notch above a joke at this stage in his career.

NT

Hasn't Ramon won every meet in NY this year (including Saratoga)?

Who cares about setting win records. Russel Baze does it year after year. Do you consider him one of the better jockeys today???

Just take a look at the Money Earned and Races Won list on the DRF page. Dominguez is third moneywise not because of Graded Stakes but because he racks up Claiming MSW and ALW wins. Gomez, Leparoux, Garcia, Desourmaux
are on the list because they rack up graded stakes. Dominguez is by no means a horrible jockey but he is not a top tier rider yet.

Nonsense. There's no way Smith, Prado or Bejarano rank higher than him. Gomez yeah, Desormeaux maybe, Leparoux maybe. It's not even an argument, Dominguez is a top five jock right now.

Does Russel Baze ride in the deepest jockey coloney in the country or does he ride on a circuit where he constantly has the best mount in 5 horse races?
What Dominguez has done in NY this year is pretty impressive.
Also, doesn't he have over 40 stakes wins this year? Didn't he win a few big races aboard Gio Ponti? He won a few with Fabulous Strike too, right?
I just don't know what point you are trying to make. Sure he's not Gomez, but then again who is. If Ramon went out there he is in the top 3 immediately. And all of a sudden Mike Smith is Eddie Arcaro? I remember a couple of years ago, Mike Smith off was a betting angle. But I guess Zenyatta has single handily brought him off that list.

Dominguez is on the top of that list because he wins a lot of races. That's because he's good. He also rides on the best circuit in America. Comparing him to Russell Baze is ludicrous.

He had a good Derby mount this year in Desert Party and hopefully his Derby mounts will get better going forward (although staying in NY is not gonna help).

He didn't have a great deal of good BC mounts because he doesn't have a big barn for which he's a 1st call rider. He had a chance with a horse like Dublin but he flopped in the Champagne. He's also in NY full-time for the first time.

He's absolutely a top tier rider. Without question.

NT

I will have to respectfully disagree with the dominguez bashers. I have been watching Ramon for years and if he isnt a top jockey at this point i dont know who is. He can ride any horse on any surface.

You would really take Mike Smith as an all around jockey at this point over Dominguez? Really?

Whats the difference of what Bejarano did in So Cal than what Dominguez did in NY?? Did they not both win all titles at thier respective circuits? Bejarano (2008) and Dominguez (2009). For some reason you think Dominguez ranks higher with regular jockeys like Prado, Velasquez, Garcia, Maragh, Desormaux moving in and out of the circuit to ride in FL and KY. You can say NY jockey colony is deeper but that can be argued.

Put Prado's resume and Dominguez resume in front of two people who know nothing about horse racing and they can tell you who has achieved more. Please! Even if Prado is in a slump right now, there is no way his entire career is tarnished because of it.

if smith rode gio ponti and ramon rode zenyatta you have a different winner last saturday at the bcc

on the pro surface track you need to be far outside and wide coming for home , ramon got trapped inside and never gave his horse a chance to see zenyatta coming

Please give up the rant on the Gio Ponti ride. The ride was completely flawless, and as a person who bet him, I couldn't have asked for a better trip for my money. Smith's ride was great as well and he had the best horse on the day that's why he won. Furthest Land and Vale of York both won their races with similar trips to Gio Ponti, so this argument that the inside wasn't the place to be is absurd.

again tell me where the best part of the track was that day and for the days leading up to the cup - if the inside was so good why did mike smith go from tracking RD to go way way wide on the far turn? why did ramon try to get outside but got blocked twice by the #3 horse - simpky inexcusible

smith knew where to go he swung way wide to the best part of the surface and jerry bailey made note of it - right after the race saying he earned every $ today for the connections with his flawless ride

Thats hard to say. I really thought Gomez should have ridden Gio Pionti but Zenyatta was all the best that day.

gio ponti never saw zenyatta , how do you know she gets bye him if ramon is right on the outside , right next to her

He went outside because there was nowhere to go after Gio Ponti went through the only open spot inside. Ramon was patient as he always is and the hole opened up and he hit it perfectly. I'm not sure where you can see him getting blocked at any point really. Do you really think that if Ramon opted to go outside, which means he would have had to go out 4 or 5 paths and was much closer to the leaders than Smith was at the time, that Gio Ponti would have warded off Zenyatta's stronger late kick? Watch his ride on Carribean Sunset this year in the Diana and let me know if that was a bad ride as well where he narrowly lost to Forever Together on an overmatched horse. That was a very similar ride in the stretch to the Gio Ponti ride.

What Prado accomplished in the past is irrelevant to who is the better rider today, and Dominguez is consistently the best rider on the NYRA circuit today. Just look at who's riding these guys. Name one outfit presently for whom Prado rides first call.

I am not going to criticize Dominguez's ride on Gio Pionti but a jockey ideally would like to take the shortest route to the finish line and for Domininguez he saw the inside to be wide wide open and he rightfully took it.

For Zenyatta, mike smith, in every race, swings her outside and stays in the outer path all the way. Zenyatta is such a big horse and its hard for anyone to split horses like smith attempted to do so instead he swings farther outside and then she was gone.

Maragh is going to be a top rider for a long time. I'd guess that his turf ROI is off the charts.

Angel is really doing wonders for JRV these days.

I was about to type pretty much the same thing, then saw your post. I couldn't agree more.

Please stop... Gio Ponti exploded through that opening and was easily gunned down by the GOAT.

I think the top 5 is clear cut right now... Ramon, Julian, Garcia, Kent and Gomez.... That's in order.

I dont know what and how you consider him better than anyone one of them. If you go by acomplischments thus far then Dominguez has to be dead last on that list. If you want to compare him in the last year or so then top 10 he is for sure. Top 5 maybe not

So because Dominguez has no Triple Crown or BC wins he's not a Top 5 rider?

Sure, I mean, why not base a jockey's standing on the results of 17 races when he rides 1700 races a year.

NT

He actually won the Turf on Better Talk Now in '04. Couldn't agree more with you though.