Who Is Horse Of The Year?
 

Might as well have a poll here to see where the board stands.

Bumpity bump.

I guess you voted Rachel because they are tied now.

I'm surprised thus far, I thought RA would be 75% to Z's 25% when this poll was started, looks like the BC did have an impact on people.

The RA people in here are just more vocal.

Tell me about it.

I posted this link in the other HOY thread, but it will get lost in the Coach Pants-Revidere race to the bottom.

What Jerry Brown has to say about the HOY debate.

http://www.thorograph.com/phorum/rea...5230#msg-55230

I thought this post was interesting:

Re: Okay, look. (235 Views)
Posted by: TGJB (IP Logged)
Date: November 09, 2009 02:33PM


Michael-- based on Rachel's top (3) as a 2yo on poly, if she had come into the race rested, at weight for age, I would have laid about as much of that 1/5 as anyone wanted to take. That would have been all-in time for me.

And they're right.

It really isn't much of a debate. Was Raven's Pass the Horse of The Year last year....or Well Armed this year....I love Zenyatta but her campaign doesn't even come close to Rachel's.

CSC is not debating, he's Rachel hating. Hes already been exposed, the hating started last summer. I think that one of Jackson's wines game him a tummy ache or Assman snubed him for an autograph at the track.
We all know Rachel deserves HOY, there shouldn't even be a discussion.

Funny how anyone who doesn't agree with the notion that RA is the definitive HOY is termed a 'hater'. I don't see this sort of defensive mechanism from the Zenyatta backers. What does this speak of to some of her fanbase?

Even more odd, what does it say about those of us who appreciate both?

I wish the Eclipse vote was tomorrow.

Seriously, dude? Every post of yours about Rachel Alexandra, whether comparing her to Summer Bird pre-Breeders Cup or Zenyatta post, has been the epitome of defense mechanism.

How does thinking Rachel was obviously horse of the year mean you don't appreciate both? Of course I appreciate a horse like Zenyatta. I love her....but the question is not who has the biggest cheering section, its who was Horse of the Year. And that is clearly Rachel for 2009.

You have to admit, you openly questioned whether she was better than Summer Bird even after she destroyed him in the Haskell. You've constantly nit-picked her campaign and went so far as to say her resume should be downgraded a tad because she didn't run in the Derby for her prior connections.

It's one thing to think she's the definitive pick for HOTY, it's another to think Zenyatta is, but both of their accomplishments speak for themselves. I think it's a little too convenient for you, or anyone else who engages in it, to question why Rachel ran in the Preakness rather than Belmont and the Woodward rather than Travers but just assume that Zenyatta gets a pass on the joke of a schedule she had because she won the Classic.

NT

Ultimately, I think it's a question of whether or not you want to call it Horse of the Year, or Horse of the Race. Horse of the Year is Rachel Alexandra, for she did amazing things throughout the year. Horse of the Race is Zenyatta, because she won the big race of the season.

I think the kicker is that Eclipse Awards go well beyond 'What have you done for me lately?' People are also forgetting the impact Rachel Alexandra had when she did her thing and how she was a hot topic on Twitter, ESPN and on the front pages of newspapers.

Also, testing an older filly/mare against males is not as bold and exciting as testing a 3-year-old filly against older males. That's insane... we'll probably never see that again.

Season ending honors are about results and the big picture. I give Zenyatta double bonus points for winning the BC Classic, but Rachel won the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward. She traveled, she tried and she conquered. The race is a photo finish but Rachel's nose is down first... Zenyatta closed hard, but needed one more jump to get there.

Yeah, if there ever was a year for co-Horse of the Years, this is it. But by doing so you do recognize a horse for having never left her comfort zone. Kind of risky, but forgettable. You also recognize a horse for skipping the championships, kind of lame, but understandable.

Interestingly, how big does the scratch at Churchill seem now. If Zenyatta had won on Derby weekend, what does that do to this debate? Interesting stuff to consider.

that guy looks like McChoke a lil

I've always maintained what RA had accomplished up until Sept 5 was HOY worthy, my beef if you can call it a beef is I only wish she had raced the entire year where most horses are primed for a championship run, or more precisely in the JCGC or the BC. Up until that point she was the deserved choice for HOY barring a performance that could supercede her resume later in the yr. This is the chance her connections took when you call it a year with almost 4 months left on the racing calendar, well to be more accurate 3 months and 3 weeks, I don't see the hate in this thinking, I saw that performance from Zenyatta last Saturday and she would be my vote not only because I believe she would have beaten RA(yeah I know we will never know, but she didn't run for whatever reasons you want to believe) in the Classic had she run but the way in which she won the race, which was very decisive.

:tro: :tro:

Rachel started in January, Zenyatta started in... you can't hold it against Rachel.

Also, assuming who would beat who is weak when you're talking about recognizing results. It's not the "Horse of the Year If X Would Have Happened."

Sept 5 to Nov 6 would have given her ample time to get ready, she is 1 for 1 on poly may I remind everyone, yes I know JJ's feelings on synth but you play with the hand that all the other owners were dealt also, you don't see this crap from Summer Bird's connections for instance and you see the yr he has had, many still think he should be racing in Japan in Dec? Why is RA that fragile they couldn't fit one more race in, nevertheless I would have been satisfied if she ran one more time after the Woodward and that was the JCGC, but for whatever the reasons one want's to believe, she was protected the rest of the year.

If Zenyatta had run and won in the Pacific Classic instead of ducking that race I think the HOY voting would be alot closer. But she was ducking the males all year. RA ducked no one and took on all challenges :tro: HOY

Have you applied the same scrutiny to Zenyatta's schedule?

NT

You are basically asking for the impossible from one horse, but giving the other a complete pass at anything resembling a legitimate race schedule. You must have been a big fan of Southern Image and Kip Deville.

I actually think the scales tip at that point towards Zenyatta. All she needed to do in hindsight was one more 'outside the box' thing.

What's odd for me is that her connections have been so set on this horse of the year talk since last year's Breeder's Cup, you'd think they would have considered actually doing something with the horse to prove them right. Beating Lethal Heat four times just doesn't cut it. I'm sorry.

Since the Jockey Club Gold Cup was supposed to be the proving ground, why didn't Z show up there? I know that would mean actually leaving socal, but we do have these jet plane things.

Color me just a little shy of being able to believe that. If the campaign she had didn't impress you, and has left with you with so many uncountable knocks on her, nothing she could have done would have impressed you.

If the Breeders Cup had been held at Churchill, instead of Santa Anita, would you think the same way? I don't think you can hold the venue choice for the Breeders' Cup against Zenyatta.

I mentioned more than once here she deserved HOY before Saturday, and it was only after Z's performance in the Classic that my mind changed.

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

she ran 8 very hard races all year and the trainer even said she was spent after the Woodward and needed a break. Why do you choose to ignore that?

How many times has SB ran this year?

How about Zenyatta?

You will find 8 is a pretty solid number of races and also the year starts on Jan 1st, not on Sept 5th.

So had she raced once in the months of May, June, August, October and November that would make her more eligible in your mind? :zz:

Here's Ghostzapper's 4-race Horse of the Year campaign in 2004, which started in July:


Breeders' Cup Classic Powered by Dodge (gr. I, 1 1/4 miles in 1:59.02, NTR, equal top weight, by 3, defeating Roses in May, Pleasantly Perfect, Perfect Drift, Azeri, Personal Rush, Birdstone, Dynever, Fantasticat, Funny Cide, Bowman's Band, Newfoundland, Freefourinternet).

Woodward S (gr. I, 1 1/8 miles, defeating Saint Liam, Bowman's Band, Seek Gold, Newfoundland, Midway Road, Presidentialaffair).

Tom Fool H (gr. II, 7 furlongs, top-weighted, by 41/4, defeating Aggadan, Unforgettable Max, Lion Tamer).

Philip H. Iselin Breeders' Cup H (gr. III, 1 1/8 miles, top-weighted, by 103/4, defeating Presidentialaffair, Zoffinger, Private Lap).


In 2004, Saint Liam was not an "established" horse, and the fields for the Tom Fool and Iselin were really weak. Considering the fact that she's a female, is Zenyatta's campaign substantively less?

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

Wow presently 52 votes for each. How I wish they could have raced each other

I dont understand how bringing up GZ campaign helps Zenyatta??

Rachels whole year was so much better than Z. Z's one race was great. Z should for sure be the "Breeders Cup HOY" and Rachel should for sure be "actual HOY"

She's not obliged to ship East at all. Look at their campaigns...forget the this one dodged this or that. Look at the races themselves. One substantial race for Zen doesn't do enough to overtake Rachel.

So what other 8-8 horse that raced outside of the box all year long in ultra impressive fashion did Ghostzapper have to go up against on the west coast to solidify his claim as horse HOY?