Derby Trail Forums

Derby Trail Forums (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/index.php)
-   The Paddock (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Summer Bird to Japan Cup Dirt (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32706)

NTamm1215 11-09-2009 11:13 AM

Summer Bird to Japan Cup Dirt
 
ARCADIA, Calif. - After traveling from Arkansas to Kentucky, to New York and New Jersey, back to New York and then to California, Summer Bird next will be discovering Japan.

Tim Ice, the trainer of Summer Bird, on Monday said that an invitation has been accepted to run Summer Bird in the Japan Cup Dirt on Dec. 6. Summer Bird, who finished fourth under jockey Kent Desormeaux on Saturday in the $5 million Breeders' Cup Classic at Santa Anita's Oak Tree meeting, will remain at Santa Anita until flying to Japan on Nov. 17.

"I'm filling out my paperwork right now, and Kent is coming by to do his later this morning," Ice said Monday morning. "We're going to try to get Birdstone some international recognition."

Birdstone is the sire of Summer Bird - who won the Belmont, Travers, and Jockey Club Gold Cup - and also of Mine That Bird, the Kentucky Derby winner who finished ninth in the BC Classic.

The Japan Cup Dirt is run one week after the better-known Japan Cup, which is on turf. The dirt race is run at Hanshin Race Course, at approximately 1 1/8 miles, and is on a right-handed course. The purse of the race is approximately $2.8 million.

Summer Bird's campaign this year - three Grade 1 wins, including one against older rivals - has made him the overwhelming favorite to be named champion 3-year-old male.

Ice said he was satisfied with the way Summer Bird performed on Saturday. Summer Bird was beaten three lengths by Zenyatta.

"Zenyatta deserved it. She ran a hell of a race," Ice said. "She beat me, but it was fun to watch her run, to be a part of it. I'm proud of the way my horse ran."

Summer Bird removed doubt about his ability to handle a synthetic surface. He had been based in California one year ago with trainer John Sadler, but was said at the time to not be handling the Pro-Ride surface at Santa Anita, so he left the circuit. Drs. Kalarikkal and Vilasini Jayaraman, who bred and own Summer Bird, turned him over to Ice, who has had a breakout first year as head trainer.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/108826.html

NT

slotdirt 11-09-2009 11:14 AM

Ugh. This never goes well for the Yanks.

Coach Pants 11-09-2009 11:16 AM

Have they lost their minds? That dirt course is garbage.

smuthg 11-09-2009 01:45 PM

I kinda like the move... any horses going over for the Japan Cup Turf?

slotdirt 11-09-2009 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg
I kinda like the move... any horses going over for the Japan Cup Turf?

I'm sure Lava Man is available.

ARyan 11-09-2009 02:27 PM

Good luck to them, but I'd rather see him given a rest or stay in this country for another start this year.

I agree with Slot's assessment.

CSC 11-09-2009 02:50 PM

I'm not sure about this one, I think a break is well deserved for him. He's taken on the toughest campaign of any horse this year and you want to make sure you have a good, fresh 4 yr old to race next year. Perhaps biting off more than is needed.

RockHardTen1985 11-09-2009 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
I'm not sure about this one, I think a break is well deserved for him. He's taken on the toughest campaign of any horse this year and you want to make sure you have a good, fresh 4 yr old to race next year. Perhaps biting off more than is needed.


Totally agree. Lay off, come back at Gulfstream or FairGrounds. This makes no sense to me at all.

Travis Stone 11-09-2009 02:56 PM

Toughest campaign of the year for Summer Bird?!

Gander 11-09-2009 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg
I kinda like the move... any horses going over for the Japan Cup Turf?

Interpretation.

CSC 11-09-2009 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone
Toughest campaign of the year for Summer Bird?!

You don't agree, look at the races he has raced in this year. The way he is going he will end up in the Hollywood Derby after Japan the way Ice is talking him up on turf.

NTamm1215 11-09-2009 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
You don't agree, look at the races he has raced in this year. The way he is going he will end up in the Hollywood Derby the way Ice is talking him up on turf.

If you think Summer Bird is a turf horse then I have a bridge to sell you...

NT

CSC 11-09-2009 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
If you think Summer Bird is a turf horse then I have a bridge to sell you...

NT

I think it was an Ice quote, but notice I never talked up SB this week one iota, however I admit I was cheering for him but I didn't lay a dime on him at that price in the classic.

reese 11-09-2009 03:05 PM

Another bunch of connections seduced by the limelight.

SB had a tough year. No rest for the "weary". Needs 20hr plane trip and quarantine in Japan so he can finish "up the track" there.

How have other US horses done racing in the Japan Cup?

cakes44 11-09-2009 03:15 PM

This must be what Kent D. was saving him for at the end of the Classic.

Antitrust32 11-09-2009 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
I think it was an Ice quote, but notice I never talked up SB this week one iota, however I admit I was cheering for him but I didn't lay a dime on him at that price in the classic.


its impossible to bet a dirt horse on a alternative turf track that i totally agree with.

SB was the best horse in the race IMO.. well dirt horse I guess there were all kinds of horses in that race.

pba1817 11-09-2009 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215
ARCADIA, Calif. - After traveling from Arkansas to Kentucky, to New York and New Jersey, back to New York and then to California, Summer Bird next will be discovering Japan.

Tim Ice, the trainer of Summer Bird, on Monday said that an invitation has been accepted to run Summer Bird in the Japan Cup Dirt on Dec. 6. Summer Bird, who finished fourth under jockey Kent Desormeaux on Saturday in the $5 million Breeders' Cup Classic at Santa Anita's Oak Tree meeting, will remain at Santa Anita until flying to Japan on Nov. 17.

"I'm filling out my paperwork right now, and Kent is coming by to do his later this morning," Ice said Monday morning. "We're going to try to get Birdstone some international recognition."

Birdstone is the sire of Summer Bird - who won the Belmont, Travers, and Jockey Club Gold Cup - and also of Mine That Bird, the Kentucky Derby winner who finished ninth in the BC Classic.

The Japan Cup Dirt is run one week after the better-known Japan Cup, which is on turf. The dirt race is run at Hanshin Race Course, at approximately 1 1/8 miles, and is on a right-handed course. The purse of the race is approximately $2.8 million.

Summer Bird's campaign this year - three Grade 1 wins, including one against older rivals - has made him the overwhelming favorite to be named champion 3-year-old male.

Ice said he was satisfied with the way Summer Bird performed on Saturday. Summer Bird was beaten three lengths by Zenyatta.

"Zenyatta deserved it. She ran a hell of a race," Ice said. "She beat me, but it was fun to watch her run, to be a part of it. I'm proud of the way my horse ran."

Summer Bird removed doubt about his ability to handle a synthetic surface. He had been based in California one year ago with trainer John Sadler, but was said at the time to not be handling the Pro-Ride surface at Santa Anita, so he left the circuit. Drs. Kalarikkal and Vilasini Jayaraman, who bred and own Summer Bird, turned him over to Ice, who has had a breakout first year as head trainer.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/108826.html

NT

This seems to be what happens when a trainer gets his first decent or good horse.. he runs them all over the place, shows no patience(Wooley comes to mind too), and basically ruins the horse before its time.

Dude, give your horse a break, he had a fantastic season and will be very good to you next year if you are good to him now...

slotdirt 11-09-2009 04:33 PM

I sincerely doubt it's Tim Ice making all of these decisions. There is an owner involved here, after all.

3kings 11-09-2009 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44
This must be what Kent D. was saving him for at the end of the Classic.

I laughed.

deltagulf 11-09-2009 05:45 PM

he can rest s/b after. lets see what he has left . he aa growing 3 yr old. no baby

Coach Pants 11-09-2009 05:47 PM

I wonder if Steve will hire a co-host for ATR in 2011. Tim Ice will probably be available. :D

Danzig 11-09-2009 07:02 PM

how many starts on the year? seven or eight? that's not exactly a gruelling campaign.
he can run in the japan cup and then take a nice long break before starting back next year.

Travis Stone 11-09-2009 07:21 PM

I would probably go too... his races have been spaced out, it's not like he tried all three legs of the Crown and it's dirt, his preferred surface.

CSC 11-09-2009 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985
Totally agree. Lay off, come back at Gulfstream or FairGrounds. This makes no sense to me at all.

I don't see the logic in going to Japan other than for the obvious reasons...money, it's a strange move for a horse destined to be at the top of the division next year, not to mention the dreadful record American horses have when they ship over there.

CSC 11-09-2009 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
how many starts on the year? seven or eight? that's not exactly a gruelling campaign.
he can run in the japan cup and then take a nice long break before starting back next year.

Let's examine his year, he started his career on only Mar 1 of this year.

Race 2 - Broke his Mdn on Mar 19
Race 3 - Arkansas Derby on Apr 11
Race 4 - Kentucky Derby on May 2
Race 5 - Belmont on June 6
Race 6 - Haskel on Aug 2
Race 7 - Travers on Aug 29
Race 8 - Jockey Gold Cup on Oct 3
Race 9 - BC Classic on Nov 6
Race 10 - Japan Cup on Dec 6?

Not much time to rest for 2010...and these races hardly resemble Peppers Pride's sheet.

pba1817 11-09-2009 10:05 PM

That is 9 starts in 8 months, including 6 G1's and a G2...

That is a career for most horses...

Danzig 11-09-2009 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
Let's examine his year, he started his career on only Mar 1 of this year.

Race 2 - Broke his Mdn on Mar 19
Race 3 - Arkansas Derby on Apr 11
Race 4 - Kentucky Derby on May 2
Race 5 - Belmont on June 6
Race 6 - Haskel on Aug 2
Race 7 - Travers on Aug 29
Race 8 - Jockey Gold Cup on Oct 3
Race 9 - BC Classic on Nov 6
Race 10 - Japan Cup on Dec 6?

Not much time to rest for 2010...and these races hardly resemble Peppers Pride's sheet.



i don't see a problem. there's certainly not much early on for next year, i don't see what the rush would be. and i'd imagine they're going to map a campaign backwards from the bc. plenty of time for a break after japan and before his '10 campaign.

Danzig 11-09-2009 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pba1817
That is 9 starts in 8 months, including 6 G1's and a G2...

That is a career for most horses...


a refreshing change for sure from what we've seen in years' past.

pba1817 11-09-2009 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
a refreshing change for sure from what we've seen in years' past.

You wont be saying that if come spring time and he is up the track in a few starts...

letswastemoney 11-10-2009 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pba1817
This seems to be what happens when a trainer gets his first decent or good horse.. he runs them all over the place, shows no patience(Wooley comes to mind too), and basically ruins the horse before its time.

Dude, give your horse a break, he had a fantastic season and will be very good to you next year if you are good to him now...

Umm Wooley?

Mine That Bird barely ran this year. he had 2 prep races for the BC and that was it. He was kept out of the Travers. I wouldn't exactly call that having no patience

Cannon Shell 11-10-2009 04:40 AM

I dont understand why they would run there. You have the 3 yo champion coming back (supposedly) against a terrible group of older horses and a thin bunch of fellow three year olds. You have run an ambitious schedule since March and just ran a good but not outstanding 4th in the Classic. Perhaps your horse is starting to feel the effects of the campaign and tailing off? You are going to run on a plowed field against 15 horses across the pond in a race that is really of little signifigance except for the purse.

What is the point?

Kasept 11-10-2009 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pba1817
This seems to be what happens when a trainer gets his first decent or good horse.. he runs them all over the place, shows no patience (Wooley comes to mind too), and basically ruins the horse before its time.

Dude, give your horse a break, he had a fantastic season and will be very good to you next year if you are good to him now...

A reminder that trainers don't own these horses. Owners do. That's why they're called owners... The Jayaramans waited a long time to have a horse like this, put a lot of money into the game and want to enjoy going where you can go with horse like this. They were invited to Japan and think it would be a fun experience.

Runs them all over the place and shows no patience? That's comical. Summer Bird has been brilliantly managed by Ice start by start, bringing the horse into each venue three weeks early and honing him to terrific performances everywhere. He's thrived on the work and has gotten better as the year has gone on with each start. Even over the synthetic Saturday, as surface he wasn't supposed to handle and didn't really relish, he managed a 107 Beyer beaten three lengths by Zenyatta and a length by the 2 turf horses.

While I wouldn't make this trip if I owned him, no one can say a bad word about the decisions made by the connections up to now or how Tim Ice has handled the horse the 2009 3yo champion colt/gelding.

CSC 11-10-2009 08:08 AM

Tim Ice has impressed me alot this yr, in particular his handling of Summer Bird and not to mention how he comes across while being interviewed, this guy has a bright future in the game. This Japan venture did sound abit like an Owner's call and frankly speaking it is their right to do so, I just hope if the horse looks lethargic prior to shipping to Japan, Tim will call an audible at the line of scrimmage, I don't know him but I have no doubts he would pull the plug. The fear of running a tired horse this good, a horse that always tries and thus maybe hurting himself is far too risky.

johnny pinwheel 11-10-2009 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
how many starts on the year? seven or eight? that's not exactly a gruelling campaign.
he can run in the japan cup and then take a nice long break before starting back next year.

i agree, plus his first few were learning experiences because he had never raced. another race is no big deal. i would be more worried about the travel and the surface. our horses seem to "flop" over there.

Gander 11-10-2009 08:43 AM

Wouldnt it be something if Summer Bird shipped back to NY and faced Quality Road (again) in the Cigar Mile?

Throw in likely starters Bribon and Vineyard Haven, possibly Kodiak Kowboy too and it would be better than any BC race we just saw. A race for the ages. Race of the year if you will.

CSC 11-10-2009 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander
Wouldnt it be something if Summer Bird shipped back to NY and faced Quality Road (again) in the Cigar Mile?

Throw in likely starters Bribon and Vineyard Haven, possibly Kodiak Kowboy too and it would be better than any BC race we just saw. A race for the ages. Race of the year if you will.

I don't like it, a one turn mile doesn't really fit his strengths. I really don't see much in the calendar the rest of the year that is too appealing for him, a gr.2 win in the Clark wouldn't add too much to his resume since he is pretty much assured of the 3 yr old male eclispe already. The Malabu? Not a chance, if anything the Dubai World Cup is the most interesting race down the line, the Foster if they want a longer rest for him, I can see him running well there at CD.

Gander 11-10-2009 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC
I don't like it, a one turn mile doesn't really fit his strengths. I really don't see much in the calendar the rest of the year that is too appealing for him, a gr.2 win in the Clark wouldn't add too much to his resume since he is pretty much assured of the 3 yr old male eclispe already. The Malabu? Not a chance, if anything the Dubai World Cup is the most interesting race down the line, the Foster if they want a longer rest for him, I can see him running well there at CD.

Like Summer Bird has a better chance in that race in Japan? And how many of his fans are really even going to watch that race? Him coming to Aqueduct Thanksgiving weekend for another showdown against Quality Road, hopefully this time on a fast track? Quality Road has run at distances that more favor Summer Bird, so why not run at a distance that gives QR a fighting chance?

Okay, I forgot. This isnt about the fans...its about money.

PS- I strongly disagree that Summer Bird wouldnt do well going a one turn mile.

NTamm1215 11-10-2009 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander
Wouldnt it be something if Summer Bird shipped back to NY and faced Quality Road (again) in the Cigar Mile?

Throw in likely starters Bribon and Vineyard Haven, possibly Kodiak Kowboy too and it would be better than any BC race we just saw. A race for the ages. Race of the year if you will.

Summer Bird would get absolutely mauled at 8 furlongs against those horses.

NT

CSC 11-10-2009 09:52 AM

Mine That Bird would be more interesting IMO.

pba1817 11-10-2009 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney
Umm Wooley?

Mine That Bird barely ran this year. he had 2 prep races for the BC and that was it. He was kept out of the Travers. I wouldn't exactly call that having no patience

He was kept out of the Travers because he had surgery...

8 starts(all the TC legs) in 8 months at 6 different tracks with a surgery thrown in is not patience...


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:55 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.