Desormeaux Ends 0 for 54 Skid
 

With his win aboard Hold That Thought in Monday's 4th race at Saratoga, Desormeax broke an 0 for 54 skid at the Spa. He had started the meet pretty hot but then he turned ice-cold and could not buy a win. Anyway, he finally broke the skid.

Nice to know that's you, Richi! Hope things are good for you and yours! TMG

Hey bro...question for ya. I don't recall reading anything you may have said about his ride on Relaxed Gesture in the Sword Dancer. Anyways, what did you think of the ride and does a ride like that have any bearing on what type of wagering you may do on that jock in the future?

I actually thought he did the right thing on Relaxed Gesture. When Ramazutti challenged him on the clubhouse turn, I thought he was correct to take back and let Ramazutti go. You don't want to go head and head in a 1 1/2 mile race. He ended up getting into a little trouble on the far turn but it didn't make much diference. He didn't have any horse.

I'm not a big fan of Dersormeaux but if I like his horse I don't have a problem betting on him. There is no jockey that I won't bet on.

Hes hard for me to bet on and I'll tell you why. It doesnt seem to bother him when he delivers a bad ride or gets beat on a very low priced favorite on a ride that showed little effort. I've seen this guy after 2 races this year when he failed to be in contention with horses in the 3/5 range. He didnt look like he at all cared one bit. No thanks, I'd rather have a guy who is really trying hard out there than a pompass Southern California brat whos had everything handed to him.

Kent D should take a lesson from the way Prado rode Naughty NY'er yesterday. Edgar completely took the horse out of his element because he obviously read the drf before the race and knew the horse had to change his running style to win that race.

Kent D rode Relaxed Gesture as if there were horses in there with sprinting speed that were going to come 5-10 lengths back to the field.

Let me just add that I did not bet Relaxed Gesture to win at 3/5 but I did key him in many bets. I dont think he was going to win that race with any ride but as a bettor, I want a chance. I dont want to rip up my ticket halfway through the race because a guy who gets paid very well is lousy at his job.

There is no way in the world that Prado planned on doing what what he did in that race yesterday. It had nothing to do with preparation before the race. It was a split-second decision he made in the middle of the clubhouse turn. He actually took back at the beginning of the race. But he found himself six-wide in the middle of the clubhouse turn. He knew they were absolutely crawling up front so he decided to move early for two reasons. The first reason was because they were going so slow. The second reason was because he thought he would actually save some ground. He didn't want to stay six-wide all the way around the clubhouse turn. So he had two choices. He could have taken back and dropped back to last but he didn't want to do that becuase they were going so slow. So instead he decided to speed up to get a little better position and not go so wide. Unfortunately for him, when Chowder's First saw what Prado was doing, Chowder's First decided to move also and this forced Edgar to stay really wide.

It was just a bad situation for Edgar. He was in a really bad position and he was pretty much screwed no matter what. At that point, he was going to get a bad trip no matter what. He just had to decided which trip would be the lesser of the three evils. He made a split second decision to send the horse which he figured was a better choice than his other two options. He ended up getting a terrible trip, but his horse was so much the best that he still won fairly easily.

But as I said before, this was not something he planned on doing from pre-race preparation. He actually took back at the beginning of the race. If he had planned on being close to the lead, he would have sent the horse from the beginning. This was one of those cases where pre-race preparation went out the window due to the unexpected way the race unfolded.

I concur with Richi's assessment above. On top of the situation unfolding as it did, Edgar likely knew he had tons of horse. Pat Kelly stopped by yesterday and said he thought "NNY" was coiled and ready to spring... Good race...

[quote=Rupert Pupkin]There is no way in the world that Prado planned on doing what what he did in that race yesterday. It had nothing to do with preparation before the race. It was a split-second decision he made in the middle of the clubhouse turn. He actually took back at the beginning of the race. But he found himself six-wide in the middle of the clubhouse turn. He knew they were absolutely crawling up front so he decided to move early for two reasons. The first reason was because they were going so slow. The second reason was because he thought he would actually save some ground. He didn't want to stay six-wide all the way around the clubhouse turn. So he had two choices. He could have taken back and dropped back to last but he didn't want to do that becuase they were going so slow. So instead he decided to speed up to get a little better position and not go so wide. Unfortunately for him, when Chowder's First saw what Prado was doing, Chowder's First decided to move also and this forced Edgar to stay really wide.

Edgar's ride was brilliant. He now leads the standings by 4. Johnny and Rafael are tied for 2nd and Coa, Cornelio Velasquez and Gomez are tied for 4th. Gomez is an iceman, 0-24 and hasn't ridden a winner wince Builders Option. Johnny nailed his ass good in the 2nd race yesterday.

Gomez and Kent D are 1 for their last 83 combined? Say it aint so?

:eek:

I think theres more to it Rupert. He knew by reading the drf the race was going to have a probable slower than needed pace for the Naughter NY'er to do his come from behind thing. Thats why he had him closer to the pace right from the get go.

Prado is far superior to Kent D. Not even close. Its like comparing David Ortiz with A Rod when it comes to clutch hitting.

Johnny nailed his ass good in the 2nd race yesterday.[/quote]

I thought I was home-free on that first-timer in the 2nd race yesterday. I had $200 to win and place on that horse. That was a heart-breaking loss. It's pretty rare to lose a race like that. How often does a horse that you blow by at the 1/8th pole come back and beat you? I can't fault the ride. It was a case of Pletcher's horse being fitter than Weaver's horse. Weaver is not a guy that has his first-timers cranked up. He only wins with first-timers at a 7% clip. I knew that going in but I had seen that horse work at the Ocala Feb Sale and I thought the horse could run so I bet him despite the fact that I thought he might be a little short.

Its so. No way can Gomez stay with Prado. Frieze and Anderson aren't exactly buddies after that Bailey split up and Prado is just far superior to Gomez. Frieze will just take mounts on claimers every time anyone gets close to Prado and open up.

He didn't have him closer to the pace from the get go. He was dead-last going into the clubhouse turn.

Okay, by the half the horse was right up with the leaders then dropped back accordingly. He knew he had tons of horse and he knew going into the race what he may have to do and did it to win. That was a nice ride.
Of those 54 horses Desormeaux lost with, how many do you think Prado would have gotten home first?

I have no idea if Desormeaux cost any of those horses the race. I haven't watched closely enough.

[quote=oracle80] What do you mean Edgar's ride was brilliant? If Gomez would have been on that horse and given that exact ride and ended up losing the race by half a length, you would say that it was one of the worst rides you had ever seen. I would actually agree with you.

Believe me, Desormeaux does not ride 54 horses without a chance. Its not like this guy rides for low % trainers. He rides for Frankel and Clement.
Not sure if Pletcher rides the guy, I dont think he ever does. And now I know why.

Pletcher actually rode him on a horse Saturday when many of the other jocks were out of town.

Because I have the time to do this.....the odds on his mounts through those 54 races and his finishing position.

23.40 - 9th of 10
15.20 - 8th of 8
34.25 - 3rd of 10
22.40 - 6th of 12
7.50 - 4th of 10
3.40 - 6th of 9
4.60 - 8th of 10
4.60 - 3rd of 6
7.80 - 2nd of 9
3.60 - 3rd of 11
5.80 - 7th of 10
5.60 - 2nd of 6
21.30 - 5th of 11
0.70* - 5th of 8 (Relaxed Gesture)
32.00 - 7th of 12
2.85 - 5th of 10
9.20 - 3rd of 8
9.60 - 6th of 8
34.75 - 5th of 9
13.80 - 3rd of 10
9.80 - 5th of 9
5.90 - 2nd of 8
26.00 - 5th of 9
17.50 - 4th of 5
1.80* - 6th of 12 (Grand Opening)
14.80 - 6th of 9
15.20 - 7th of 9
1.35* - 2nd of 9 (Karakorum Knockout)
35.50 - 7th of 7
3.10 - 5th of 11
3.00 - 5th of 7
5.70 - 7th of 8
23.10 - 3rd of 9
28.00 - 6th of 12
43.75 - 7th of 9
5.80 - 3rd of 8
7.20 - 5th of 8
4.60 - 3rd of 9
2.85 - 4th of 9
4.60 - 2nd of 6
13.20 - 7th of 7
3.35 - 9th of 9
16.50 - 4th of 9
6.10 - 3rd of 5
31.50 - 6th of 12
5.40 - 3rd of 10
22.00 - 3rd of 9
1.55* - 3rd of 9 (Watchtower)
26.50 - 6th of 10
12.90 - 4th of 13
33.50 - 5th of 9
0.85* - 5th of 10 (Yankee Thunder)

I thought I was home-free on that first-timer in the 2nd race yesterday. I had $200 to win and place on that horse. That was a heart-breaking loss. It's pretty rare to lose a race like that. How often does a horse that you blow by at the 1/8th pole come back and beat you? I can't fault the ride. It was a case of Pletcher's horse being fitter than Weaver's horse. Weaver is not a guy that has his first-timers cranked up. He only wins with first-timers at a 7% clip. I knew that going in but I had seen that horse work at the Ocala Feb Sale and I thought the horse could run so I bet him despite the fact that I thought he might be a little short.[/quote]
I just watched that race again. I still can't believe I lost that race. He blows by that horse at the 1/8th pole by 2 lengths and that horse comes back and beats him. That was a tough beat. The $5.10 he payed to place was a little consolation but not much. You expect to win those kinds of races.

I just watched that race again. I still can't believe I lost that race. He blows by that horse at the 1/8th pole by 2 lengths and that horse comes back and beats him. That was a tough beat. The $5.10 he payed to place was a little consolation but not much. You expect to win those kinds of races.[/quote]


That was a Point Given baby that won that race too, wasn't it? I still think PG may throw out some big time turf runners. I think Go Between has a lot of potential for next year.

Thanks Kev. Sort of says it all.

Its almost as if he let that horse win that race. Very strange finish. I'd be furiously bummed if I needed Granny Pack for the Win.

It's tough for those first-time 2 year olds to be totally fit to run 1 1/16 miles first-time out. In addition, Weaver usually doesn't have them totally ready first-time out. He only wins at a 7% clip first-out compared to Pletcher who wins at a 23% clip first-out.

Granny Pack just wasn't quite ready to go 1 1/16 miles. She just got a little tired. If the race was just a little shorter she would have won.

True and I heard Frankel was pissed at Kent D and chewed his agent out the other day at his barn after one of Kent D's ride where he decided that he'd ride the horse his way instead of what Frankel told him to do; he ended getting stuck behind horses and running 3rd or 4th and I dont think Clement was too confident in him for the Sword Dancer. Kent has been absolutely horrendous and it has been to my advantage to toss out any horse that he's on unless that horse laid over the field.

I just watched that race again. I still can't believe I lost that race. He blows by that horse at the 1/8th pole by 2 lengths and that horse comes back and beats him. That was a tough beat. The $5.10 he payed to place was a little consolation but not much. You expect to win those kinds of races.[/quote]

Rupert I just got home from taking my friend the clocker out to see some yearlings that he wanted to scout for an owner. He was absolutely filled with depression and rage at Gomez for that ride. He really emptied out on Weaver's horse and could not believe what Gomez did. Rupert you simply cannot ride a two year old making his or her first start going two turns as Gomez did. He rides every horse as if it is a 6 year old gelding who knows what to do in a race. He had so much horse underneath him and yanking her wide and setting her down hard to try and blow the field away was not the thing to do. She came up short due to the huge burst she was asked to use. Meanwhile Johnny saved all the ground and didn't panic when she blew by him, he stayed with his mount and had horse at the end. Gomez definitely blew that race. My clocker's exact words were "Gomez stinks, he does stupid things every time I bet him". Now this is a guy who trained grade one winners and has spent his life at the track.
You can rail on about anything you want but the bottom line is this, you go ahead and find me ONE ride at the entire meet where Johnny or Edgar gave a single ride like the one Gomez gave Milwaukee. Try it, you will fail. They will give bad rides like anyone else but they will not commit complete disasters from start to finish like Gomez has given so many times this year like Sigfreto and Milwaukee. Its why he goes 0-5 days and the other two don't. You won't EVER see Prado or Velazquez go 0-5 days, ever, never. It does not happen. Gomez simply refuses to adapt his style to the shorter priced horses he rides. Every ride has to be a thrill seeking daredevil event. Sure when he pulls one off he looks great. But when you are riding the caliber of animal he now rides you are supposed to keep many of them clear, near the lead, and out of harms way. He refuses to do this. You have said about Edgar thathe looks weak down the stretch and have expressed amazement that he wins like he does. many say Johnny doesn't do anything special most of the time. Races aren't about looking like a daredevil superstar every time, races are about winning. Give me the guy who stays three wide and out of trouble when hes on the best horse over the guy who tries to hit every moving hole at 35 MPH. In the long run the guys who ride smart will win more races and not give bettors or trainers heartburn. If johnny or Edgar ever gave a ride like the ones Gomez gave Violette's maiden last week on teh grass, Sigreto, or Milwaukee they would hang themselves. You can rail on about money won this year but you and I both know thats not really accurate or fair. The money in california is huge in the winter while Gulf's is horrible. It evens out when the eats Coast goes to Keeneland and then Belmont and Gomez took Johnny's mounts when he was hurt. If you honestly think that Gomez would be leading either Johnny or Edgar without that injury you are delusional. He will get run down before the year is out and we both know it. All I know is since the day you came on here chirping that Gomez was leading rider he has served up some delicious bagels with cream cheese and watched three guys pass him and two others tie him despite his live mounts. At the highest level of any profession its all about consistency and the other two have it and he does not. Thats what seperates them.

Frankel and Clement's barns at Toga arent exactly massive. And its not like Kent rides first call on all of their horses.

Kent was riding like **** during this streak...no way to defend that. But at the same time, all riders go through that and its not like he was blowing chalk every other race. Some of those horses simply didnt have a chance. In trying to establish himself in the east, Kent is taking mounts he wouldnt have taken on the west coast.

He is a good rider and does anyone want to bet that he finishes with a pct in the teens?

As for the ride on Relaxed Gesture, kent got stuck in no mans land. His horse broke really sharply and there was no pace. If he would have ridden on the lead the whole way, everyone would have asked why he was on the lead. The horse wouldnt relax and he did what he could. Some of you act as if Relaxed Gesture never burned money. This horse is a money burning machine regardless of who is riding. Kent's ride certainly wasnt optimal but give some credit to the horse too.

Rupert I just got home from taking my friend the clocker out to see some yearlings that he wanted to scout for an owner. He was absolutely filled with depression and rage at Gomez for that ride. He really emptied out on Weaver's horse and could not believe what Gomez did. Rupert you simply cannot ride a two year old making his or her first start going two turns as Gomez did. He rides every horse as if it is a 6 year old gelding who knows what to do in a race. He had so much horse underneath him and yanking her wide and setting her down hard to try and blow the field away was not the thing to do. She came up short due to the huge burst she was asked to use. Meanwhile Johnny saved all the ground and didn't panic when she blew by him, he stayed with his mount and had horse at the end. Gomez definitely blew that race. My clocker's exact words were "Gomez stinks, he does stupid things every time I bet him". Now this is a guy who trained grade one winners and has spent his life at the track.
You can rail on about anything you want but the bottom line is this, you go ahead and find me ONE ride at the entire meet where Johnny or Edgar gave a single ride like the one Gomez gave Milwaukee. Try it, you will fail. They will give bad rides like anyone else but they will not commit complete disasters from start to finish like Gomez has given so many times this year like Sigfreto and Milwaukee. Its why he goes 0-5 days and the other two don't. You won't EVER see Prado or Velazquez go 0-5 days, ever, never. It does not happen. Gomez simply refuses to adapt his style to the shorter priced horses he rides. Every ride has to be a thrill seeking daredevil event. Sure when he pulls one off he looks great. But when you are riding the caliber of animal he now rides you are supposed to keep many of them clear, near the lead, and out of harms way. He refuses to do this. You have said about Edgar thathe looks weak down the stretch and have expressed amazement that he wins like he does. many say Johnny doesn't do anything special most of the time. Races aren't about looking like a daredevil superstar every time, races are about winning. Give me the guy who stays three wide and out of trouble when hes on the best horse over the guy who tries to hit every moving hole at 35 MPH. In the long run the guys who ride smart will win more races and not give bettors or trainers heartburn. If johnny or Edgar ever gave a ride like the ones Gomez gave Violette's maiden last week on teh grass, Sigreto, or Milwaukee they would hang themselves. You can rail on about money won this year but you and I both know thats not really accurate or fair. The money in california is huge in the winter while Gulf's is horrible. It evens out when the eats Coast goes to Keeneland and then Belmont and Gomez took Johnny's mounts when he was hurt. If you honestly think that Gomez would be leading either Johnny or Edgar without that injury you are delusional. He will get run down before the year is out and we both know it. All I know is since the day you came on here chirping that Gomez was leading rider he has served up some delicious bagels with cream cheese and watched three guys pass him and two others tie him despite his live mounts. At the highest level of any profession its all about consistency and the other two have it and he does not. Thats what seperates them.[/quote]

What i bolded is simply not true. Ive seen them all go winless. I saw bailey go 0 for like 8 one day at Aqueduct on a stake day no less. Johnny and Edgar blow rides just like everyone else and they certainly have gone 0 for 5 during a day of racing.

***edit***

I just re-read your post and now i am wondering if i misunderstood you. Did you mean 0-5 during a day of racing or did you mean not winning a race in five days? If you meant the latter, my apology.

You are right about Relaxed Gesture, he is a money burning machine. There is a lot of creedence to that. I do think the better move would have been to simply stay on the lead and run as far as he could. Probably would not have beaten the winner, but I still think he would have finished better than he did.

I am a complete moron for keying this horse.

Rupert I just got home from taking my friend the clocker out to see some yearlings that he wanted to scout for an owner. He was absolutely filled with depression and rage at Gomez for that ride. He really emptied out on Weaver's horse and could not believe what Gomez did. Rupert you simply cannot ride a two year old making his or her first start going two turns as Gomez did. He rides every horse as if it is a 6 year old gelding who knows what to do in a race. He had so much horse underneath him and yanking her wide and setting her down hard to try and blow the field away was not the thing to do. She came up short due to the huge burst she was asked to use. Meanwhile Johnny saved all the ground and didn't panic when she blew by him, he stayed with his mount and had horse at the end. Gomez definitely blew that race. My clocker's exact words were "Gomez stinks, he does stupid things every time I bet him". Now this is a guy who trained grade one winners and has spent his life at the track.
You can rail on about anything you want but the bottom line is this, you go ahead and find me ONE ride at the entire meet where Johnny or Edgar gave a single ride like the one Gomez gave Milwaukee. Try it, you will fail. They will give bad rides like anyone else but they will not commit complete disasters from start to finish like Gomez has given so many times this year like Sigfreto and Milwaukee. Its why he goes 0-5 days and the other two don't. You won't EVER see Prado or Velazquez go 0-5 days, ever, never. It does not happen. Gomez simply refuses to adapt his style to the shorter priced horses he rides. Every ride has to be a thrill seeking daredevil event. Sure when he pulls one off he looks great. But when you are riding the caliber of animal he now rides you are supposed to keep many of them clear, near the lead, and out of harms way. He refuses to do this. You have said about Edgar thathe looks weak down the stretch and have expressed amazement that he wins like he does. many say Johnny doesn't do anything special most of the time. Races aren't about looking like a daredevil superstar every time, races are about winning. Give me the guy who stays three wide and out of trouble when hes on the best horse over the guy who tries to hit every moving hole at 35 MPH. In the long run the guys who ride smart will win more races and not give bettors or trainers heartburn. If johnny or Edgar ever gave a ride like the ones Gomez gave Violette's maiden last week on teh grass, Sigreto, or Milwaukee they would hang themselves. You can rail on about money won this year but you and I both know thats not really accurate or fair. The money in california is huge in the winter while Gulf's is horrible. It evens out when the eats Coast goes to Keeneland and then Belmont and Gomez took Johnny's mounts when he was hurt. If you honestly think that Gomez would be leading either Johnny or Edgar without that injury you are delusional. He will get run down before the year is out and we both know it. All I know is since the day you came on here chirping that Gomez was leading rider he has served up some delicious bagels with cream cheese and watched three guys pass him and two others tie him despite his live mounts. At the highest level of any profession its all about consistency and the other two have it and he does not. Thats what seperates them.[/quote]

I really can't criticize Gomez' ride on that 2 year old filly yesterday. Every jock is asking their horse for everything at the 1/8th pole. I don't know any jock that is still sitting chilly at the 1/8th pole. If this was like the movie Groundhog Day and he could ride the race over again, he'd have to try soemthing different only because what he did didn't work. If he had to do it again, I'd tell him not to really ask her until the 1/16th pole, but that's only in hindsight. Normally you expect your jock to be all out at the 1/8th pole.

I actually think that Prado's ride on Naughty New Yorker was terrible. Nobody is going to criticize the ride because it worked. But the only reason it worked was because he had the best horse by 10. It wasn't totally Prado's fault. The bad post was what put him in a bad place to begin with. Then Castellano's premature move on Chowder's First put Prado in a worse spot. The one smart thing that Prado did was take back approaching the half-mile pole and give his horse a breather until the 3/8th pole. But even then he moved to soon at the 3/8 pole. He could have waited to the 1/4 pole. Then he did another stupid thing. At the 1/8 pole, instead of hitting the horse left-handed to make sure that he and CF don't get too close and brush each other, he's hitting the horse right-handed. He finally switched to the left-hand after he passed CF to make sure that he didn't get taken down for coming over on CF. That was smart but he should have been doing that earlier. There's nothing that drives me crazier than when a jockey is on the outside and has a ton of horse and he's hitting his horse right-handed. Why hit the horse right-handed? There are just too many things that can go wrong. There is no reason to take chance of coming in on the other horse. You want to stay away from the horse to your inside. Hit the horse left-handed and stay out in the middle of the track where there is no chance of any type of contact with the horse to your inside. That is actually one thing that Gomez is very good about when he's on the outside with a lot of horse. He hits his horse left-handed and stays away from the horse to his inside. Anyway, I thought Prado made a ton of mistakes on Naughty New Yorker but he had much the best horse and won any way.

As I said before, I can't criticize Kent for taking Relaxed Gesture back going into the clubhouse turn. I think that was the smart thing to do. You don't want to go head and head on the lead in a 1 1/2 mile race. For that matter, you really don't want to go head and head on the lead in any route race, especially on a horse that's not even a speed horse.

What about for taking the horse straight to the lead? That's not thehorse's running style?

I don't think he planned on going to the lead and I don't think he really tried to go to the lead. He broke good and there was absolutely no pace early and he found himself on the lead. That happens sometimes. Even if you have a horse that has never been anywehre near the lead in his life, if they go slow enough he can end up on the lead. It 's only a bad ride if a horse is on the lead and is going much faster than he normally goes. Relaxed Gesture is a horse who usually runs the half in :48 and change or :49. In the race on Saturday they went the half in :49 1/5 and he found himself on the lead. He's gone to the lead before. In the Man O War last year at Belmont, he was on the lead going :48 3/5. He ran 2nd that day.

What i bolded is simply not true. Ive seen them all go winless. I saw bailey go 0 for like 8 one day at Aqueduct on a stake day no less. Johnny and Edgar blow rides just like everyone else and they certainly have gone 0 for 5 during a day of racing.

***edit***

I just re-read your post and now i am wondering if i misunderstood you. Did you mean 0-5 during a day of racing or did you mean not winning a race in five days? If you meant the latter, my apology.[/quote]


I stated what I meant, 0-5 days. Gomez has done this several times this year already that I know of, maybe more. Lots of luck trying to find Johnny or Edgar going 0-5 days, it DOES NOT happen.