10/3 (BEL): JCGC, Hirsch, Beldame, Flower Bowl, Vosburgh (G1's)
 

6TH (3:23) Beldame S. (G1)

1 1/8 Miles | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Music Note Maragh R 123 L
2 Captain's Lover (SAF) Velazquez J R 123 L
3 Unbridled Belle Dominguez R A 123 Blk-Off L
4 Copper State Bridgmohan S X 123 L
5 With Flying Colors Castellano J J 123 Blk-Off L

A-Coupled: Captain's Lover (SAF) and Unbridled Belle



7TH (3:59) Vosburgh S. (G1)

6 Furlongs | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $400,000

1 Go Go Shoot Maragh R 124 L
2 Peace Chant Desormeaux K J 124 L
3 Munnings Velazquez J R 122 L
4 Kodiak Kowboy Bridgmohan S X 124 L
5 Fabulous Strike Dominguez R A 124 L



8TH (4:35) Flower Bowl Invitational S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles (Inner turf) | Fillies and Mares | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Leamington Prado E S 119 L
2 Pure Clan Leparoux J R 121 L
3 Dynaforce Desormeaux K J 123 L
4 Criticism (GB) Castellano J J 121 L
5 Carribean Sunset (IRE) Dominguez R A 119 L
6 Beauty O' Gwaun (IRE) Dominguez R A 115 Blk-On FTL
7 Queen of Hearts Espinoza J L 119 L
8 Moneycantbuymelove (IRE) Spencer J P 115 FTL

A-Coupled: Carribean Sunset (IRE) and Beauty O' Gwaun (IRE)



9TH (5:09) Joe Hirsch Turf Classic Invitational S. (G1)

1 1/2 Miles (Turf) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $600,000

1 Interpatation Albarado R J 126 L
2 Al Khali Desormeaux K J 121 L
3 Telling Castellano J J 126 L
4 Musketier (GER) Prado E S 126 L
5 Gio Ponti Dominguez R A 126 L
6 Winchester Dominguez R A 126 L
7 Ready's Echo Velazquez J R 126 L
8 Presious Passion Trujillo E 126 L
9 Grand Couturier (GB) Garcia Alan 126 L

A-Coupled: Gio Ponti and Winchester



10TH (5:43) Jockey Club Gold Cup S. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $750,000

1 Sette E Mezzo Dominguez R A 126 L
2 Macho Again Albarado R J 126 L
3 Summer Bird Desormeaux K J 122 L
4 Tizway Maragh R 126 L
5 Asiatic Boy (ARG) Garcia Alan 126 Blk-On L
6 Dry Martini Prado E S 126 L
7 Quality Road Velazquez J R 122 L

Why do they continue to couple entries?!?

The usual 5 horse fields in a grade 1... Make that a 4 betting Interest and 5 Betting Interest. I guess they will blame the economy when they miss their numbers not the product they are giving us.

Nice gold cup!:$: :$:

You really can't blame NYRA. It isn't their fault if folks don't want to run for a $600,000 purse.

It's strictly based on the Breeders Cup. Does anyone think if the BC wasn't on synthetic that Mine that Bird would be in the Goodwood instead of the JCGC? Or that Icon Project would go to the Spinster instead of the Beldame?

TRUE....

The real problem is that there are only so many horses to go around. With everything rendered essentially a Breeders Cup prep, you have a race in almost every division in NY, KY and CA each of the next two weeks. Then add in races like the Cotillion, Indiana Derby, the Calder 2YO races, Canadian International, EP Taylor, the Hawthorne Gold Cup and the Meadowlands Cup, and it's no wonder that the talent is spread thin. Aside from Icon Project and Mine That Bird, are there any other horses "prepping" out west that would otherwise be in NY on Saturday? And even if those horses were here, it's not like the card would be significantly better from a wagering perspective.

Buh Buh Buh But

This is the only meet where G1 DIRT races are being offered. (Or so I hear on the NYRA show.)

EVERYBODY knows that DIRT is superior to the other surfaces, don't they? And, it then follows that EVERYONE would be in NY running for G1 money on the dirt, right?

Horses really shouldn't be running on POLY, right?:rolleyes:

Yeah, the HUGE fields at BEL really bear this out.

NYRA and its whipped DIRT followers will soon realize that times are changing.

Maybe they'll take another race off the turf tomorrow. Yippee.

Bullsbay was going to the Goodwood before injury. Rachel would certainly be on this card if the BC was on dirt. I have to imagine that the Vosburgh would have a much larger field, the Forego had 12 horses and the King's Bishop had 9. You are right that there are way too many races but the BC being on synthetics this year is certainly playing a part in the weak card on Saturday with horses wanting to prep on synthetics and horses not racing this weekend cause they have no interest in running in a BC on synthetics.

I think it's more the number of races than the surface. As Parsix says, there aren't a lot of horses that are running in other areas that you could say for certainty would be in NY if the BC wasn't on synthetic.

Isn't Awesome Gem a California based runner? He's running in the Hawthorne Gold Cup. I just think it's a matter of so many races and spots to chose from that people look for easy ones, an obvious exception being Cocoa Beach going to take on Zenyatta but even that comes because of the stable having so many horses looking at the same races.

In several of the races in NY this weekend, the pro tem division leaders are racing. With all the other options, why bang your head against the likes of Summer Bird, Gio Ponti, Macho Again and Fabulous Strike when you can go to other locales and run against weaker fields for good money.

When Zenyatta shows up in the Lady's Secret, they'll probably have a short field; same thing is likely when Icon Project and Forever Together run at Keeneland next weekend.

One thing about the Vosburgh: I wish that they would return it to 7F. It was a far more interesting race when contested at 7F than it has been since shortened to 6F to coincide with the distance of the BC Sprint.

True to a point however NYRA has to share responsibility for not putting pressure on trainers to enter a few horses to get fields of more than 4 and 5 horses. They can't even offer a Super...A cheap claimer can stagger home for 3rd money. The incentive awards at Toga seemed to work. Also, is it just me but the this years version of Beldame seems like a race I have seen over and over same horses battling it out.

You don't think stakes coordinator Andrew Byrne and PJ Campo were hustling to get every possible nominee and entrant they could for these races? The incentive awards? These are Grade I stakes and among the most important of their kind. Running in them is its' own incentive. And while runners get a 50% rebate on the fee for passing the entry box, it still costs owners money to run in these races. Instead of the blind and idol claim that nothing was done to fill the entry box better, I'd love to hear the names of the horses that were appropriate for these spots. And since they only pay for the top five finishers, who exactly of those staggering cheap claimers from those forthcoming lists were going to finish ahead of the Beldame or Vosburgh runners?

The filly/mare main track (Beldame) and sprint (Vos) division races were impacted by the glut of similar stakes on the schedule around the country and the synthetic track opportunities for same in a year where the Breeders Cup is being run on a synthetic track. And it must be just you that feels like the Beldame runners have been banging heads repeatedly, because among Music Note, the Team Valor pair, Copper State and With Flying Colors, only Copper State and Unbridled Belle have ever been in the same race: the 2008 Obeah.

Nice to see Interpatation in over his head...yet again:rolleyes:

I don't get. What happened to horses being spotted where they have a actual shot of winning?:confused:

They should cancel all 5 of them and run 5 claiming turf sprints.

You don't think stakes coordinator Andrew Byrne and PJ Campo were hustling to get every possible nominee and entrant they could for these races?
Steve I can only comment on the result and not the attempt. And the result of 4 and 5 horse grade 1 fields is on a regular basis is truly pathetic.

Instead of the blind and idol claim that nothing was done to fill the entry box better, I'd love to hear the names of the horses that were appropriate for these spots. And since they only pay for the top five finishers, who exactly of those staggering cheap claimers from those forthcoming lists were going to finish ahead of the Beldame or Vosburgh runners?

I don't have the answers and it is not my job to find the answers. I am simply Joe Public; a consumer of their product and 4 / 5 horse graded stakes on a regular basis in my opinion is a piss poor product. As customer it is of no interest to me the reasons why. In any other business those that fail to deliver the desired results are replaced by others who could or who you think could. Eventually you find someone who does or your business fails.

And it must be just you that feels like because among Music Note, the Team Valor pair, Copper State and With Flying Colors, only Copper State and Unbridled Belle have ever been in the same race: the 2008 Obeah

:wf I stand corrected, I guess its the 4 horse fields that are Ground Hog Day to me. :wf

Racing is truly a funny business. IT is the only business that attacks its customers when they complain about the product and then wonders why they
are losing customers. Still love the show.

Kinda sad Bob. Whats he got? 5 wins from 45 or so starts? Clearly Grade I calibur:rolleyes:

I thought about Interpreation last night. Always put in races like this where his chances are zilch. I dont know how an owner can get pleasure in watching his horse compete at a level where its obviosuly not happening. Its pretty sad actually.

Who's being attacked? Why is any response that answers a critique over-dramatically interpreted as an 'attack'? I provided my response and it was written without rancor.

Frankly, I don't get the complaint about 'the product'. The 'product' has been great, really, all year. Are fields stretched thin these weeks with Oak Tree, Belmont, Turfway and then Keeneland stacked up on top of each other? Yeah. Read Crist's piece about this from last weekend.

There aren't enough top horses to fill every stake.. And people have selective memories if they think every stake historically had overflow fields 10, 20, 40 and 75 years ago. They didn't. As a snapshot, Kelso was in fields of 8, 7, 6, 4 and 6 when he won his 5 straight Gold Cups in the 60's.

There are too many stakes that are similarly conditioned that are run near each other that siphon the horses, and the landscape has changed so that a place like Presque Isle Downs is a legitimate venue to run your horse if you're considering a Breeders' Cup try this year.

Why does the $750k Cotillion have to be run this week? Why shouldn't those 3yo fillies be facing off against elders already in a race like the Beldame the way Quality Road and Summer Bird are facing elders in the JCGC? (How about running the Cotillion on the Pennsylvania Derby card? It gets a little close to the Alabama, but you get the idea..)

What's really more accurate about the business of racing, is that it's a game where the customers are rarely if ever satisfied, and are constantly searching for things about which to complain. Revel in the next of a series of weekends of generally outstanding racing, instead of focusing on less than ideal circumstances of things that are hard to control in the environment as it currently exists.

The Beldame, at the last second, surprisingly lost a 6th horse that made it a very good race. As for the Vosburgh, it's a great race with the 5 it got. Generally, small stake fields are indicators of horses present that are standouts... Like Fabulous Strike, Go Go Shoot and Munnings. Get a copy of Champions and look at the field sizes of some of the famous historic races over the years. It will be an eye-opener.

There is a lot of irony in a thread that combines people complaining about small fields on Saturday at Belmont while at the same time, others ( myself included) are complaining about why a horse like Interpertation is running SAturday in a GR1 at Belmont.

Don't get me wrong Bob...not complaining. Hell, I think it's great, because as you and I both know, there will be idiots that bet money on him. The more dumb money in the pools, the better:$:

I just think it's sad that the owners ego gets on the way of the horse being a legitimate overnight stakes or maybe GIII horse.

Maybe the phrase Instead of the blind and idol claim rubbed me the wrong way. ;) Tommorows graded stakes entries by betting interests. I rest my case that NYRA is simply not getting it done.
5:00 TDN(8) Ohio Derby (13)
5:15 HOO(11) Indiana Derby (12)
5:14 HAW(7) Hawthorne Gold Cup (11)
6:12 HAW(9) Robert F. Carey (9)
5:09 BEL(9) Joe Hirsch (7)
5:43 BEL(10) Jockey Cup Gold (7)
4:16 PHA(10) Fitz Dixion (6)
4:35 BEL(8) Flower Bowl (6)
3:59 BEL(7) Vosburgh (5)
3:23 BEL(6) Beldame (4)

Surely you speak not of NYRA where the average betting interests in Grade I races going back to July 4 is 7.8 with only two five-horse fields in the interim (Ballerina, Ruffian).

The turf average is 9.25 but that's a tad unfair given that there's only been 4 Grade I turf races since 7/4.

NT

These two do share 6 cross-entrants.

Not to mention that comparing restricted races to open is foolish. It also is worth mentioning that the only races that contain any good horses are at the bottom of the list.

It's a lot easier to go to Indiana and run against a couple of good horses and 9 tomato cans then to run in the JCGC and be a candidate for 4th.

NT

And your association with NYRA is ? Give me those averages but exclude Saratoga.
BY Dirt / Turf (Exclude MTO's)

Yeah... I was starting to write a much fuller response but I'm not going to. The only race that fits the discussion is the Cotillion which could have contributed meaningfully to the Beldame. But scheduling issues are a topic for the Graded Stake Committee and Racing Secretaries Meetings to hash out. Again... everyone should read Crist's piece on this subject.

The collection of nice horses at HAW tomorrow are meaningless to Grade 1 field conversation. The Carey runners are horses that can't go in the Gr. I Shadwell Mile at KEE, and the HAW Gold Cup horses aren't good enough for the JCGC.

Crist's thoughts, among others, are further outlined in the Prescription For Racing that was released by TDN. Worth a read.

Why do I have to be associated with NYRA to think you're a chronic over-reactor whose opinion in this case is not substantiated on fact?

I am more than anything, like just about everyone here, a fan and tomorrow I'm going to watch some of the best horses in training participate. I'll take a day full of horses like Fabulous Strike, Munnings, Music Note, Gio Ponti, Grand Couturier, Macho Again, Summer Bird, and Quality Road over what is due to be a stirring stretch battle between Sumo and Misremembered or Jonesboro and Stonehouse.

NT

Philly is going to make a change to their schedule next year which is going to further crowd the early fall races. The early discussion is for the Pa. Derby to be moved back to something like six weeks out of the BC and the Cotillion to be one week later.

Of course, Philly could do whatever they want when the fact of the matter is that their best day handles about 40% of what Belmont does on a Thursday.

NT

Well the consensus is 5 horse fields are ok as long as good horses are in said fields.

At least there are competitive football games on Saturday. And I'm thankful for that because I have a choice to dvr the sport of chickens for later.

You have to admit there are two different camps here..If you want to see better horses run, then the Belmont races are where you should be, but if you want the best wagering opportunities, I'll take the tomato cans.

And those of us that think otherwise are just ****ing idiots.

No we just lack estrogen. I mean you have to be loaded with it to enjoy a 5 horse race with 4 betting interests.

Ohh Music Note. Excuse me while I not give a ****.

Have fun! Bet Macho Again :) Tomorrow I'm going to a wedding on the beach and will probably forget that horses are even racing! LOL

I'm with you on this. Tomorrow, I'll be more a fan...drink more beer, and do less gambling. I think the Vosburgh is an outstanding betting race even with just 5 going. Theres not one in there you cant make an excellent case to win.

We have all winter to bet big, non-compelling fields loaded with big pools at Gulfstream and Aqueduct.

If you dont like it, theres plenty of college football on.

yes, there is. it just proves the adage that you can't please everyone.

Actually very excited to see the races tomorrow, regardless of the 'betting' opportunities. There are some excellent match-ups. Things seen tomorrow may help in the future regarding the Breeders Cup races. I can search for betting opportunities in plenty of other places. I'm going to appreciate the races for the competition and hopefully see a few nuggets which may be helpful come Nov 6-7.

You don't have to watch the races to get a few nuggets, simply draw a line through all tommorows DIRT starters that you see on Breeders Cup Day.