All-time Top 12 seasons by a QB
 

1. Peyton Manning (28) 121.1 2004 IND
2. Tom Brady (30) 117.2 2007 NWE
3. Steve Young (33) 112.8 1994 SFO
4. Joe Montana (33) 112.4 1989 SFO
5. Daunte Culpepper (27) 110.9 2004 MIN
6. Milt Plum (25) 110.4 1960 CLE
7. Kurt Warner (28) 109.2 1999 STL
Otto Graham (26) 109.2 1947 CLE
9. Dan Marino (23) 108.9 1984 MIA
10. Sid Luckman (27) 107.5 1943 CHI
11. Steve Young (31) 107.0 1992 SFO
12. Randall Cunningham (35) 106.0 1998 MIN



Five best single season qb ratings since 1995:

1. Peyton Manning (28) 121.1 2004 IND
2. Tom Brady (30) 117.2 2007 NWE
3. Daunte Culpepper (27) 110.9 2004 MIN
4. Kurt Warner (28) 109.2 1999 STL
5. Randall Cunningham (35) 106.0 1998 MIN


#'s 2, 3, and 5 all seem to have a common thread at WR.

#'s 3 and 5 also have a common thread in that they both royally suck.

Brady Quinn 09-----TBD, but I get the feeling it may go down as a great one

I don't think he's any better a draft pick than Ted Ginn Jr....

but at least Ginn's never been photographed wearing a pink shirt in public.

Wonder what that thread is? I think a couple of guys owe him their MVP awards. It's funny to look at the numbers of guys like Lynn Swann and see how even in his best seasons ever, he wasn't as good as Moss was even during his first season in Oakland or last season playing with a first year quarterback yet he is a hall of famer. His greatness is matched by only one other receiver in the history of the game.

Couldnt one easily make the point that Brady could have put up BETTER numbers over a career than Manning if given the same tools to work with over an extended period of time? Manning, for the majority of his career, was working with a Hall of fame receiver in marvin harrison and an all pro on the other end in reggie wayne. In the backfield, he had Edgerrin James.

Compare this to what Brady has had to work with. Troy Brown? That was his best receiver and he was playing corner half the time. Running back? Without googling, can you name the starting tb from the first superbowl? Randy Moss was the first good receiver the guy had and look at the season he put up.

Brady has had three different offensive coordinators during his time in NE while Manning has worked with all of ONE.

Can Brady make all of the throws Manning makes? No, he can't. Manning's accuracy and coverage reading ability are unparalelled. He hits passes I have never seen another QB make. But in the brightest lights, I would sooner have Brady. Manning, more times than not, has folded up in the big games. Brady's record speaks for itself.

Can anyone name a QB that has won 3 superbowls without a single fellow offensive player likely to go into the hall of fame? Think about that. One QB, three superbowls and no other hall of famers on the offense.

There's no question in my mind that I'd take Brady over Manning. None.

If they want to attempt an extremely tough sell they could.


The last two years, he had back to back 4K yard passing seasons with Harrison a virtual non-factor and James not on the team.

He's having another brilliant season so far this year without the two of them.

Yeah, Antwon Smith. I picked the Patriots to win the Super Bowl that year before the season ... Indian Charlie can tell you all about it.


The New England defense in its prime will do that to you.


Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl with a team that went 5 weeks without scoring an offensive touchdown.

How many likely future hall of famers played offense on the last two teams to win a super bowl? None at the skill positions anyway.

I'd take Manning in a heartbeat. But...

Pre-injury or right now?

Brady got outplayed by Matt Ryan yesterday. Even the team of Brady adoring commentators (Buck and Aikman) said so much throughout the game.

He's consistantly missing wide open guys badly.. though he has settled down very nicely late in the 4th quarter in those two wins.

How do you know Manning isn't the one who made them hall of famers? He doesn't look much different minus Harrison, James, etc. Maybe Pierre Garcon is a hall of famer too?? For a large chunk of the time, I think Brady had a better defense supporting him than Manning did. I don't know who is better, but I don't think you can easily make the point that Brady could have put up better numbers in his career with Manning's tools to work with.

Good to see the best ever professional qb on the list.

Like many before him, Carson of Cinn., most recently comes to mind. It will take Brady at least a year and perhaps 2 or 3 before he consistently throws like he did before the injury. Part head, part heart, part maturing graft, part persistent pain and weakness in the leg. The four grafts that anchor his new AC in his knee will not be what they can be until at least next football year. Don't underestimate how much healthy legs are essential to strong pinpoint passing. And because it feels good one down don't think it's the same feeling for every down. He'll get better with time but he is not really Brady yet.....and no doubt BB knows this and will adjust on the fly accordingly. Patience Drugs....

I think Brady could of ... but the question is more how much better ... and I think the answer is certainly not enough to match Manning.

Obviously, when he got Moss he became the leader of the all-time #1 scoring offense in NFL history ... breaking the points scored record of the '98 Vikings (another Moss team)

I think Manning has had a better hand to play with from an offensive unit standpoint prior to Moss arriving ... but defense is what tends to win the big games .. and Brady has always had the vastly superior defense. At least until recently ... now a lot of Pats greats on defense are retired, or should be retired, or are playing D-line for Oakland.

Colts D has been weak in the middle and too reliant on cover 2 for too long. New coordinator is not above a LB or CB blitz once in a while and has added some bulk in the DT positions.
I'll be the first to say Manning has had some lousy playoff games. No real excuse for the SD loss last year. I think that NE had his number/was in his head until that 2006 AFC Championship game and the subsequent Super Bowl win. Now the monkey is off his back and given the choice, I would pick him over Brady (post injury) as my go to QB.

Course I am a homer, so there is that.

Hey where's that Favre guy?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=547

An interesting take.
Brady knocked down to #3
Culpepper to #12
Cunningham to #17

Still no Favre

He - or his formula anyway - ranks Favre the 11th best of all-time.


Dan Marino has won as many Super Bowls as Randy Moss.

People that would take Brady over Manning are drinking a lot of Kool-Aid. Brady has ONE season with a QB rating over 92.6!!!!! Peyton Manning hasn't been below 95 since 2002. Have we ever seen Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne play with another QB to know how good they really were and how good Manning has made them look? Both are good receivers but they put up much bigger numbers in their career from having Manning throwing to them.

Kool-aid maybe, champagne definitely. Some guys aren't defined simply by the stats. Brady is one of them.

sanchez 09-10

the stellar 87.7 he has going is gonna take a hit when the Saints kill them in week 4.

no way the aints are a paper bull..no one has tried to beat up on breeze yet

and sanchez is doing very well..

Whenever you look at passing stats in the last 10 years, you have to consider the rule changes that have gone into effect. I don't even know/careenough to tell you the exact year within the last 5-10yrs when they made the major rule changes, or if there were several progressive, but they have made rule changes, -mainly those pertaining to defensive pass interference and illegal contact(within the route running of a receiver), but also significant is what you see as another recent rule allowance (that is so well known it is Coached into WR) where the receiver is allowed one "tap" or moderate one armed shove on the shoulder pad area to separate just before the ball arrives.
QB Stats of all kinds are devalued because of the rule changes, but this obviously means more in terms of cross-era comparison.

That aside, Moss is one of the best WR of all time.

Ummm, Marvin Harrison was there BEFORE Manning got there. And there is no doubt that Manning was a huge influence on Harrison's numbers along with the change in offense. Harrison was a good receiver before Manning but certainly not anywhere close to what he became with Manning and edgerrin.

We have seen players with and without Brady. Deion Branch? Troy Brown? Jabbar Gaffney?


Brady has a true stud wide receiver for ONE YEAR and look what he does. He breaks the record for TD passes and goes undefeated during the regular season.

Moss isn't a stud reciever ... he's an entire offensive system because of what opposing coverages do.


* An over the hill backup Randall Cunningham had a 15-1 season with Moss.

The only loss was at Tampa against Tony Dungy where Cunningham went 21-for-25 with 291 passing yards and 2 TD passes.

They lost that one game because Alscott and Dunn BOTH ran for over 100 yards and Minny's defense couldn't get off the field.


* An over the hill backup Jeff George went 10-2 with Moss

One of the two defeats was at Tampa Bay. They outgained Tampa 339-to-190.

The other loss was 31-28 at Kansas City in a game where they LOST 4 fumbles.

They dominated the Cowboys by 17 in the first round of the playoffs .. but lost a shoot out the following week in which Jeff George threw for 423 yards and 4 TD passes.

* Gus Frerotte was perfect as a starter with Moss and the offense avg'd a mere 37 points a game under him. Frerotte avg'd 3 TD passes per start.

* In Todd Bouman's first start for the Vikings he went 21-for-31 348, yards, 4 passing TD's and just 1 INT in a 42-24 win over the Tennessee Titans.

* Matt Cassell - who never saw the field in College - went 11-5 as a starter and threw for 3,700 yards with a 89.4 passer rating.


In a Randy Moss offense ... almost any bum off of the street will look like a superstar playing qb, slot reciever, and tight end. And the rb's wont get as many carries but the average yards per carry will increase.

However, that all depends on the pass blocking capability of the offensive line.

The offense with Moss was brilliant in Oakland in the rare games when the O-line wasn't downright man handled. The offense was terrible when the line was giving up a sack every other pass attempt.

Thus, the way to correctly build a Moss offense is to focus solely on an offensive line of pass blocking specialists that allow enough time for him to run deep routes and double moves.

The one advantage Culpepper had was that he was 270lbs and fairly mobile - even when the line didn't play good .. he was so hard to tackle that he completed a lot of short stuff underneath with defenders hanging off of him.

However, he had to be the single worst game manager I've ever seen. No one was ever better at losing shootouts where both sides were getting gashed on defense.

For one Super Bowl...who would you want for one game??

1985 Dan Marino.
1987 John Elway
1989 Joe Montana
1992 Steve Young
1995 Troy Aikman
1999 Steve McNair
2000 Brett Favre
2004 Peyton Manning
2007 Tom Brady

Against...lets say the 1985 Chicago Bears Defense.

against the 85 Bears it has to be 85 Marino since he carved them up in real life

I knew that one was coming from someone.

I think for 1 big game I would take my chance with Steve Young in his prime.

Daunte Culpepper or Rex Grossman

http://www.bearshistory.com/lore/chi...rterbacks.aspx

or one of these guys

Over Golden Joe? No one ever did it better than Golden Joe.

terry bradshaw is the only one of them with 4 super bowl rings

There was no one better than 43 year old George Blanda coming off the bench. :tro:

In 1970, Blanda was released during the preseason, but bounced back to establish his 21st professional season as one of the more dramatic comebacks in sports history. Beginning with the October 25 game at Pittsburgh, Blanda put together five straight clutch performances.

Against the Steelers, Blanda threw for three touchdowns in relief of an injured Daryle Lamonica. One week later, his 48-yard field goal with three seconds remaining salvaged a 17-17 tie with the Kansas City Chiefs. Repeating the thrilling finish on November 8, Blanda once again came off the bench to throw for a touchdown pass to tie the Cleveland Browns with 1:34 remaining, then kicked a 53-yard field goal with 0:03 left for the 23-20 win. In the team's next game, Blanda replaced Lamonica in the fourth quarter and connected with Fred Biletnikoff on a touchdown pass with 2:28 left in the game to defeat the Denver Broncos, 24-19. The incredible streak concluded one week later when Blanda's 16-yard field goal in the closing seconds defeated the San Diego Chargers, 20-17.

In the AFC title game against the Baltimore Colts, Blanda again relieved an injured Lamonica and had a superb performance, completing 17 of 32 passes for 217 yards and 2 touchdowns while also kicking a 48-yard field goal and two extra points, keeping the Raiders in the game until the final quarter, when he was intercepted twice. Aged 43, he became the oldest quarterback ever to play in a championship game and was one of the few remaining straight-ahead kickers in the NFL.

I'd say either 89 MOntana, 92 Steve Young or 07 Tom Brady

And all three had one common denominator, the best WR in football. That is the problem with rating QBs, there are so many other factors and too much credit is given to the QB. All three of those guys are great QBs but you'll never convince me that if you plugged Peyton Manning in for them that he wouldn't have been better.

Take a guy like Troy Aikman, he's not in the top 100 QBs to ever live but when you have one of the greatest O-Lines in football history, Emmit Smith in the backfield, and Michael Irvin, Alvin Harper, and Jay Novacek to throw to you become a Hall of Famer. Hell, Mark Rypien won a Super Bowl for one of the most dominant single season teams I have ever seen strictly cause they had the most amazing line in NFL history.

The three I mentioned, while watching them play, have performed better in big games than Peyton, or McNabb, or a lot of QB's. Clutch is a huge thing that doesnt have a stat to measure it. Its been a fact that Peyton hasnt played as well in Clutch situations as Brady. Peyton is a better QB IMO but I'll take Brady in a Clutch situation over pretty much anyone. Clutchness is as important as any other factor in my opinion.

This poll was about which QB would you want in the Superbowl, which is the most Clutch situation in football. I'd take Brady, Montana, or Young over anyone. And Brady may actually be my first pick.

And I'm sure Brady beating Manning in those clutch situations had nothing to do with Manning having to face the Patriots defense while Brady got to face the Colts defense. The fact is Brady is a Vinatieri 48 yard field goal and a Vinatieri 46 yard field goal from being 1 for 4 in the Super Bowl and don't tell me that Brady somehow caused Vinatieri to make his field goals while Jim Kelly caused Norwood to miss him. He is also 1 for 4 against the spread in Super Bowls which means his team has underperformed against expectations. And the one that he actually covered the spread was completely due to the New England defense shutting down what was thought to be an unstoppable Ram offense. Brady threw for 145 yards in that game.

Vinatieri was clutch, there is nothing remarkable about Brady in clutch situations, that is largely a myth cause he's a popular celebrity, similar to people regarding Jeter as a great clutch hitter when he's just solid in the clutch.

How can you watch Manning and his jittery feet in those situations and no realize that there's more to it than just the stats? Brady has a presence and brings a calmness to the team that is reassuring and he exudes confidence. Hell, I've even seen it in Eli Manning more than I've seen it in Peyton. You want to talk about underperforming against expectations? How many times in a row have the Colts won at least 10 games and they have one title to show for it. They are like the Braves of the NFL. When the breaks don't go your way once or twice, chalk that up to bad luck. When they continually go against you, while they continually went Brady's way, that's not luck. Then take it back to Peyton's troubles in college and you see a pattern. I think Peyton is a better passer. Better at reading a defense and making the tougher throws. Better at leading a team for 45 minutes a game. But when it's on the line, give me Brady every time and while you come up with your reasons why Brady won and Manning lost, be it the defense they face or the idiot kicker making or missing, etc, I'll be celebrating the championship. I'll always take wins over excuses.

Also, how did Brady become a popular celebrity except by winning titles? Winning is what led to the celebrity, which is no doubt grown to mythical proportions over the years and he's not the God some would want to make him out to be. But he's damn good. And he's clutch.

It has everything to do with defense why the Patriots win more games. Look at the almost perfect correlation between the Patriots defensive rank and their record since Brady took over in 2001:

4th - 16-0
6th - 12-4
7th - 14-2
9th - 14-2
10th - 11-5 (injured)
23rd - 9-7
24th - 11-5
26th - 10-6

On the other hand Peyton Manning has had exactly one defense better than 11th since 2003 and that happened to correspond with the year the Patriots went 16-0. Yet he's still managed these records:

12-4
12-4
14-2
12-4
13-3
12-4

Of course in the playoffs that lack of defense has hurt them but very few of the playoff losses have been Manning's fault. And guess what, the only time Manning got to go head to head with Brady in the playoffs at home, he won.

Putting it all on the defense as the reason why Brady wins and Manning loses is not right. Let's check out some numbers. I looked at their complete records as starting quarterbacks in the NFL, including the playoffs and not including this season's numbers. Here's what I found.

During the regular season:
Games-Manning 176, Brady 111
Winning %- Brady .784, Manning .665
TD-Manning 333, Brady 197
Int-Manning 165, Brady 86
TD %-Manning 5.6, Brady 5.4
Int %-Manning 2.8, Brady 2.3
Yards-Manning 45628, Brady 26394
YPG-Manning 259.3, Brady 237.8
Completion %-Manning 64.4, Brady 63.0
QB rating-Manning 94.8, Brady 93.0

From the numbers here, Brady wins at a much higher percentage but that has a lot to do with team play. Looking at the TD% is shows that they are pretty much equal there but Brady is better at not throwing as many interceptions. Manning throws for more yards obviously but their accuracy is pretty much the same and their quarterback ratings are very close.

Playoffs
Games-Manning 15, Brady 17
Winning %-Brady .824, Manning .467
TD-Brady 26, Manning 22
Int-Brady 12, Manning 17
TD %-Brady 4.3, Manning 4.0
Int %-Brady 2.0, Manning 3.0
Yards-Manning 4208, Brady 3954
YPG-Manning 280.5, Brady 232.6
Completion %-Brady 62.5, Manning 61.7
QB rating-Brady 88.0, Manning 85.0

It's no contest here. Manning doesn't even have a winning record (7-8) while Brady is 14-3. Brady is more accurate by completion %, has a better td% and is again better with keeping the interceptions down. Manning's td to int ratio is horrible. Brady's is more than 2-1. The only thing that Manning has an advantage in is more yards.

Conference championships and Super Bowls
Games-Brady 9, Manning 3
Winning %-Brady .778, Manning .667
TD-Brady 13, Manning 3
Int-Brady 6, Manning 6
TD %-Brady 4.3, Manning 2.3
Int %-Brady 2.0, Manning 4.5
Yards-Brady 2001, Manning 833
YPG-Manning 277.7, Brady 222.3
Completion %-Brady 63.9, Manning 56.8
QB rating-Brady 89.3, Manning 64.4

You've got to be kidding me to compare the two. Obviously, Brady with six more games is going to have more touchdowns and more yards and as usual Manning passes for many more yards per game. Manning has as many interceptions in three games as Brady has in nine. Brady's td-int ratio is still better than 2-1 while Manning's is 2-1.....in the wrong direction. Brady is much more accurate and the rating is not even in the same area code.

Interesting to see how as the stakes go up, Brady either holds steady with his numbers or increases them while Manning drops considerably in every area except for passing yards and the only reason he keeps that up is because he's usually losing and they are throwing the ball to get back into the games. Brady is right on the same level with Manning in the regular season and completely destroys him in the playoffs and in the championship games. You can blame the Indy defense all you want but I don't see how the same defense that gets you 12 wins a year every year becomes so horrible in the playoffs and how that bad defense means that Manning has to become a much less accurate and effective quarterback.