Rosario investigation (12/13: CHRB clears..)
 

http://www.drf.com/news/article/107403.html

Surprised no one jumped on this yet.....If there is another thread, move this one

The plot thickens, I guess we have to wait for Vic to address this if he can indeed comment on it here.

Yeah I just read this too....It is strange to put an offer in the next day.

If I was Vic the only comment would be "No Comment". No reason to say anything until the hearing is over.

Guys leave Vic alone. :D

PATHETIC.

very interesting........

-bt-

Yeah, hopefully he didn't instruct Rosario to not ride the horse hoping to make the horse look bad.....then allowing Vic or someone he represents to purchase the horse cheaper. That wouldn't be good.

I am sure that such a good guy like Stauffer wouldn't do that. Probably just a misunderstanding.

BITE ME.

Don't be a hater.. Vic is trying to make a career at being an agent, not a bloodstock agent or crimnal.

BITE ME.

According to Marten, the complaint filed against Rosario cited him for violations of three racing board rules. One pertains to unsatisfactory rides - "no jockey shall take his horse back without reasonable cause .



That sure is a vague rule and subject to interpretation.

So what would the interpretation be if Mine That Bird only finished 4th when Borel had him completely out of the TV picture in the first half of the Kentucky Derby?

This was a puzzling ride. But no more puzzling than any number of other rides by Joel at DMR this summer. For every good ride, Joel puts in 5 RETARDED rides. So does just about every other jock (with varying adjustments to the '5') not named Ramon Dominguez. What else is new?

What's the point? If he doesn't take back (or, better, asks his horse) when that group comes to him mid-backstretch, he finishes at the rear of the field. So, maybe the stewards need to RE-evaluate a bit. At least the jocks have the excuse that they're making split second decisions on hard to handle animals. What might the stewards' excuse be for some of their RETARDED decisions?

The rider is curious but the offer to buy the horse after the race is real interesting.

Looks like much ado about nothing, how are they going to prove he didn't give his best effort? You could break down every race and accuse a jock of that, hell guys like Solis, Nakatani, Espinoza, etc. should be suspended for life under this standard.

Doubt that Glenney will get Rosario to ride anytime soon for him and I am sure other jocks will be wary of riding for a trainer who picks up a check and complains about this.

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Isn't this more about Vic's sudden interest in purchasing the 3rd place finisher then Rosario's suspect ride. You think any of this happens if someone else contacted ownership with an offer?

Great point, Nick. Who wants to deal with worrying about a trainer going directly to the stewards when he doesn't like the ride he gets? That should have been a conversation between Rosario/Stauffer and Glenney following the race.

Maybe they did converse following the race and Glenney didn't like the answers he got.

I agree with Freddy, it is more about the purchase inquiry than about the ride. From reading Glenney's side of the story, that is what caused him to go to the Stewards.

Thanks, RBE. Bigs, I agree that the inquiry should be more about the offer for purchase than the ride. But why then are they citing Rosorio for three possible violations for the ride? The obvious implication is that Rosario intentionally blew the ride in order to devalue the horse.

However, Glenney's explanation is ridiculous to me, I told him to keep the horse outside of horses and he went inside? This stuff happens every day, how many times have we seen a jock ride a horse against what anyone on paper can see is the horses normal style? Are they going to go back and review all those races? This is complete BS!

Sure, it is a bit odd that Vic inquired about purchasing the horse, but maybe Rosario saw something in the horse in the loss. I can't confirm this, but I have to imagine that jocks often see something in a horse and relate to their agent/trainer that a certain horse might be a good purchase and move up with a better trainer. I can imagine that JV has ridden a horse by a smaller trainer and said to Pletcher that he might want to get his hands on the horse and could be a good purchase and move up under Todd.

Unless Rosario was obviously strangling the horse (ala Easy Money style) or obvioulsy making no effort on the horse, or they have some other evidence of collusion, I can't see how they can cite him for a violation. Sounds to me like this will go nowhere and Glenney just has sour grapes. I do think that other jocks will be wary of a guy who complains about this type of a ride without more evidence that Rosario stiffed the horse.

Shocking. :rolleyes:

it said in the article he would have no comment til after the hearing. i doubt he'd feel a need to comment here if he wouldn't comment to drf. as for the offer, just because stauffer asked if the horse was for sale, it didn't necessarily mean he was the one buying.
as for the jock...did he feel the horse was laboring, and didn't ask him for anything else in order to save him for another day? it was a maiden race, so perhaps the horse is younger? trainer instructions notwithstanding, it's up to the jock to handle the race how he sees best, depending on how it all unfolds. he's the leading jock at del mar, but i doubt this trainer is anywhere near the lead in the training standings-perhaps joel thought he knew better based on how the day was going? was the horse rank? 100 lbs vs 1000 lbs-we all know who will win that fight.


guess we'll see how it goes.

If I were a Lawyer, I would advise no comment. I am one that believes in the presumption of innocence before being proven guilty. I think we got to tread carefully here when it involves people's reputations online. Hopefully there is a logical explanation for all involved.

i agree completely. i always try to give people benefit of the doubt. there's always more then one side to any story.

Just another conflict of interest present in this great sport.

How ridiculous!! Don't you people have anything better to do out there? An absolute waste of time!

It sounds from the article as if the horse was running fine outside of horses and was then taken back and asked to re-rally. I'll have to see if I can find a replay to be sure. Sure jocks mess up and sometimes it's not easy to convince a 1/2 ton horse that wants to do something that the trainer advises against it.
That said, had the inquiry not been made by the agent the next day, Glenney probably would have been annoyed by the ride but would not have thought to call a steward.
Glenney is KY now so it's not like the Cali jocks are worried about him calling them. As an aside, I'm curious as to how many jock agents/track announcers are also serving as middlemen is horse sales? Is it common?

Probably about equal to the number of clockers serving as middlemen.

Anybody cash?

I think we can file this in the "What Crock of S@%t" file

Delmar Sept 6th Race 11 here's a link to Watch the Replay So you can form your own Opinion

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...edPlaced=False

I was there and saw the race live and it wouldnt have mattered if Rosario would have had a jett engine up the horses azz he wasnt going to beat the winner.

Thanks for that, though the horse winning has nothing to do with the investigation. Since they pay wagers down to 5th, jockeys are expected, at the least, to try to secure the best placing possible.

I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the replay that hasn't happened a thousand times a day, Cedros looked hard pressed to hit the board even had Rosario resorted to the whip, which is overrated anyway.

Actually the instructions of Glenney to ask a Jock to keep a horse outside without cover in a turf race should be questioned in my opinion...:zz:

Yep, one of too many to name.

Horses do get intimidated when stuck on the rail or when inside of other horses. Some horses would rather race outside of other horses rather to be hemmed in. For example, and it's not quite the same, but if you have a horse who only has a left eye, chances are you are going to want to keep him/her outside of horses so the horse is able to respond to being challenged...

I have a hard time seeing much wrong with the ride from a investigation standpoint. Rosario did get the horse positioned on the outside. He was put inside by other horses passing him on his outside. The ground he saved on the turn probably got him a check. It was also hard to say that he didnt give his best effort in the stretch, at least from the pan shot.

Jockey agents are often asked to inquire about the availability of horses they ride because they already have a relationship with the trainer of the horse. They may or may not have anything to do with the actual purchase of the horse.


Trainer John Glenney, who owns Cedros with his wife, Kim, said he was "terribly upset" about losing the winning purse in the $67,390 maiden special weight race, which followed the Pacific Classic (gr. I) at the end of the program. In a phone interview from Kentucky, he noted that he had instructed Rosario to keep Cedros on the outside.

"I felt the only way (Cedros) could get beat was if he got in trouble, so I told (Rosario) to keep him in the middle of the track and I didn't think they'd be able to catch him (in the stretch)," Glenney said. "He had him in great position on the outside on the turn and then the horse dropped back.

"I couldn't understand why that happened. Usually, if a horse flips a palate or something, he would continue to drop back. But when he made the stretch, Rosario angled him to the inside and he kept running. It appeared to me that (Cedros) wanted to win the race. So that is why I questioned the ride. It cost me about $40,000."

The horse was spent on the front end and wasn't placing regardless of Rosario's ride at that point. If it wasn't for the report of the intention to buy, an obvious slight of the trainers preparation for the horse, which is reported by the trainer this is a non story. Let the process play out so all have their say before passing judgement. The "attempt to buy" may not be all that is printed but until Vic and Rosario have a chance to respond at the appropriate time the information is incomplete. The whole thing is very strange..

Jockey agents are often asked to inquire about the availability of horses they ride because they already have a relationship with the trainer of the horse. They may or may not have anything to do with the actual purchase of the horse.

Chuck ...Am I wrong in assuming that an agent coming to you the next day about purchasing a horse that ran below expectations is kinda insulting your approach to the horse?

or it may not be so strange. the owner/trainer thought the horse would win, and he didn't. so now he thinks he has a huge conspiracy on his hands rather than just saying hey, maybe the horse just couldn't do it.

He did seem to crack him left handed about 100 yards out. He was on the rail going into the turn. If you watch him when he fades out of the big picture going into the turn Rosario has him on a loose rein, letting him run. The thought that he somehow cost him the win is stupid.