Midshipman returns Friday in BEL 3rd (2:04pm)
 

3rd (2:04)

6 1/2 Furlongs | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Allowance Optional Claiming ($75,000) | Purse: $49,000

1 Just Ben Dominguez R A 119 L
2 Midshipman Migliore R 116 L
3 Unbridled Danger Espinoza J L 120 L
4 More Than a Reason Maragh R 120 $75,000 L
5 Knights Cross Velasquez C 120 $75,000 L
6 Storm Play Velazquez J R 120 FTL

Not sure about everyone else, but I'm more interested in the return of Storm Play. With Just Ben in there as well it should be a meaningful race.

I agree, Storm Play is a nice colt. Midshipman is in DEEP IN THIS SPOT. This came up really tough, he has lots of hurdles to overcome in here.

If by lots you mean two then yes. Unbridled Danger and More Than a Reason are claimers and Knights Cross is a useful allowance animal even if he's trained by Gales' favorite conditioner.

Just Ben will make things tough on him and the return of Storm Play is interesting as well. Good for Richard Migliore to have gotten in good with Godolphin, he also has the mount on Regal Ransom in the Super Derby on Saturday.

NT

I said hurdles, not horses. I clearly mean those 2.... I mean first time racing on dirt, and first time off long layoff w/ an injury. Are those not legit hurdles?

I happen to think he's going to have zero problems with dirt. Horses like Just Ben, yes, will be a huge problem for him.

NT

this race answers some questions about his health, and we get to see his conformation again

I was disappointed when he got hurt. I realy liked his pedigree and thought he was going to improve with distance.

At this point I am starting from scratch in terms of evaluating him.

Midshipman looked very good putting Just Ben away in the stretch. The time was very solid but he did drift out tremendously. He is a dangerous horse in the BC Mile considering we know he likes the track.

Like most good horses(and most of the rivals he may face in the BC) he is versatile and handles the pro-ride just fine. I don't think Midshipman has any significant advantage over the surface per se.

Gearing up for a late season charge into the Breeder's Cup!

Really, they are loaded. Its a shame these horses missed the derby. I think Giralamo and Midshipman compare well to Nile and Bird.

Tons better!

HAHA, I wanted to say that, but kinda affraid of the potential attacks that would follow.

:confused:

But WHO would do that here????

;)

I can't believe u think that they are better?!

Most would argue a horse with a with a grade 1 win over the surface is an advantage over horses that have not even run on the surface. I do agree though that horses will like it or not like it. I do not like the Jess Jackson argument about the surface. It really is not different than running over an off track or a rock hard track. The horse will take to it or he or she will not.

I do think Midshipman is very dangerous in the BC Dirt Mile though but he will be overbet.

Why exactly is this horse dangerous?

Do you expect them to go, essentially, 1-2-3 around the track in this year's MILE? Doubtful. Do you expect him to shut off the rail late stretch and thus block what might've been a winning move by a horse to his inside, again? Good luck.

Terrible action by this horse in the lane today. Either he's sore as hell or he doesn't handle dirt well. (From the pan shot, he handled the POLY real well).

I find it comical that the first comment by a prominent DIRT LOVER was something to the effect that the horse had wasted its time on POLY.:rolleyes:

that isn't really what I am saying at all.

My point is that most good horses are versatile enough to handle the pro-ride surface just fine. I am not saying that handling the surface is a big issue. - most of the horses that are good enough to make it to the BC Mile also happen to be versatile enough that they will like pro-ride just fine. The surface isn't a big deal. There may be one or two with extremely one-dimensional running styles or pedigrees and those are the exceptions, the other nine or ten or whatever runners will race according to their ability and opportunity. For most players, handicapping will be just like any other race - gain an accurate insight of the reality of the sport. Only then would you look for bias - first those bias with the betting public, and then maybe as it pertains to forwardly placed runners or closers.

Pretty false. While there obviously are some horses who either love or hate slop/highways, there are many more who either love or hate synthetics. It's not an alterated dirt track, it's a third surface. Quick, how many horses can you name that are GSWs winners on dirt and synthetics? Bet I can name more than have won graded stakes over fast and off tracks.

Chill with the sarcasim... I have!! At this point in the 3 yr old seasson, its really not even a question. Regal Ransom is also better. Desert Party might even be better.

I really dont think he will be overbet, off of his 2 yr old championship and todays comeback he will be what he should be. Its up to us to either try to beat him or lean on him.

I disagree with a good horse being versatile enough to handle a certain surface as well as another. The surface is a big deal too. You can take a horse that is a 110 beyer horse on the dirt and he could still be a very good horse on the pro-ride but more of a 100 beyer horse. In the Breeders Cup it is very important the horse likes the surface because at that level of competition there is certain to be a horse in every race that runs well on the surface.

There are your Zenyatta's and Colonel John's that run well on both and there are your horses that are clearly better on dirt or better on a synthetic.

Actually you are twisting what I said. My point was that horses take to the track or they don't which is absolutely true. There is nothing false about my statement if you read it correctly.

And your argument doesn't really hold any weight unless you can give me percentages. Of course more horses have won on dirt and off tracks because they run most of their races on dirt. And I have no idea what GSW has to do with anything. The point was horses (claimers or graded stakes winners) either take to the track or they do not. Many trainers have pointed this out repeatedly when they ship their horses in a day or two before a race instead of a week before the race.

You could be right but I would guess he will be overbet on reputation alone and I think that race will have some prominent European grass milers in it who do not want to face Goldikova on the turf.

As for what he should be, I think he should be 30-1 if the field is just an average group and I would guess he will be 10-1 or shorter. So I think he will be overbet.

me.

Your a special case, I dont say anything because I would like to hang around this time.

I think it's more of question if instead of Pioneer(not the cream of the crop), and Mine That Bird(beneficiary of the best derby setup of all time), we should really be comparing these second-half heroes to the pre-derby version of IWR,Quality Road,and Rachel (and I will stubbornly say a pre-derby Friesan Fire, although when he followed his legit excuse in the Derby by racing directly against the teeth of the bias in the Preakness circumstances made it impossible to know if a horse dismissed by many a wise-guy was really ever grade I material at all.) These three were pretty tough regardless of what has or hasn't happened since the derby.

Desert Party was better than his stablemate at a classic distance, but appeared to be out classed in general.

I love when people call me special!

In actuality Joseph, you were kicked off once without knowing it and I talked Byk into permitting you to return, before you even realized what happened.

I'm probably the staunchest defender of PG1985 there is! Few things on here are more entertaining than the affect you have on some posters!

Paradoxically, I also enjoy giving you grief. Mainly, I think, because you are you!

Midshipman ran well today. He pressed and overtook Just Ben while running into the following pace 22.46, 44.72, 1:08.85, 1:15.83. Those were fast splits. He drifted in the lane but he still ran the fractions and could improve. First off a long layoff and first time on an all dirt course. If he runs in the BC Mile he is a legit contender. But until the card is drawn its all speculation. Nonetheless he ran well and looks like he is a serious racehorese.

I don't see how that's right. How can a horse have an advantage over a horse that might be better than him on a given surface? They might be a more known commodity but that doesn't mean they have an advantage. Did the horses facing Secretariat in the Man o'War have an advantage over him because they had history on the surface and he didn't? Did the horses in the BC Turf in 1989 have an advantage over Prized? You can't have an advantage over another if that other is better than you on that surface. The thing is that you just don't know if they are better or not because they haven't tried it.